The Leopard 2 Thread

[SnakeKqcke]

Does somebody here knows what happend with IBD's MBT ESPACE KIT (Enhanced Survivability Package for Advanced Combat Environment) ?

[SH_MM]

It never was a kit. It was a concept, they made a single - and extremely simple - model to showcase the concept, then Armored Warfare decided to invent a tank based on it.

[LoooSeR]

Leo2BV

 

Spoiler

 

[Alzoc]

Finally the meme is real

[mr.T]

Liva al Bandera Leopard2A4

 

https://t.me/milinfolive/103015

 

[SnakeKqcke]

10 hours ago, SH_MM said:

It never was a kit. It was a concept, they made a single - and extremely simple - model to showcase the concept, then Armored Warfare decided to invent a tank based on it.

Thanks mate. I guessed that it never went anywere but i found it interreting from the design. I have seen armored warfares take on it but do you have a picture from the concept shown? Also what was the deal with it? I mean how did they want to achieve better protection as i can't find anything about it anymore really. 

[sentrix]

On 6/16/2023 at 7:34 AM, HAKI2019 said:

Leopard 2A6 VS Kornet?

 

Slightly better footage of two suspected Leopard 2A6s which were hit by ATGMs.

 

https://twitter.com/colonelcassad/status/1678708743129772033

[SnakeKqcke]

Italy now part of the Leo 2 Gang

 

https://twitter.com/NichoConcu/status/1679152652503097345?t=LaVyPbVt5mG5DO59HpuCUQ&s=19

[SH_MM]

Leopard 2A6 was hit by an "anti-tank weapon" at the turret side within the frontal arc.

 

 

After traveling through the add-on armor module, the shaped charge still penetrate some 20 centimetres deep into the main armor (see 3:13 in the clip).

 

 

 

 

[DarkWanderer]

Hello there! I'm making the model of Leo 2A8 for 3D printing and i have a little question: Did anybody knows these tilt angles from first screen?

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by DarkWanderer
Update a photo

[Cheburashka]

Are there any plans or is it even possible to mount Trophy APS on Leos like the 2A7HU or does it have to be factory incorporated like on the newly planned German 2A8?

It seems really pointles to buy a new tank without APS(or even without the option of mounting it) in the year 2022+.

[BaronTibere]

Do we have a thread for the KF51 or are we just lumping it into the Leopard thread?

 

Rheinmetal to develop KF51 EVO in Hungary

 

Hull based on Bergepanzer 3

120mm L55A1 (ready for 130mm)

Autoloader

[Ramlaen]

4 hours ago, BaronTibere said:

Do we have a thread for the KF51 or are we just lumping it into the Leopard thread?

 

Rheinmetal to develop KF51 EVO in Hungary

 

Hull based on Bergepanzer 3

120mm L55A1 (ready for 130mm)

Autoloader

 

There is a thread for German vehicles and a thread for the Leo2 in particular but it is fine to post here.

[2805662]

Ze Germans have ordered as many as 24 Leopard 2 Fahrschulpanzer driving training tanks for their armed forces in two versions: 18 for the A6A3 and 8 (option of up to 32) for the 2A7V. Deliveries 2026-2029. They will replace the current A4 vehicles, in-service since 1984.

 

https://x.com/baainbw/status/1737121245659889712?s=46&t=NgApUr0JxJVmdHJ5mss_Sw

[jojoisgood]

Swedish test shown that leopard 2 with B tech Hull plus MEXAS HEAVY Add on armor has 750mm of KE protection, so B tech is 350mm,that mean add-on armor have 400mm of protection ?and d tech hull have nearly 600mm of protection ,is that mean leopard 2a7v has nearly 1000mm of ke protection ?.and also wanna ask that is the armor besides the leopard gun shield thickness around 600mm just pure RHA armoror is it something else?

Also wanna know did AMAP side armor have 600mm to 700mm of KE protection at 60°? I saw someone says that from war thunder advise of leopard 2 evolution, he said AMAP side have 750mm of CE protection (confirmed )and 600 to 700mm of KE protection, 

Really want to know if that is real.

And also wanna ask why leopard 2a8 use trophy as APS not rheinmetall ADS,I think ADS is better It has ability to stop round going fast and doesn't need to care the distance .

And did anyone know will leopard 2a7v equipped PSO side armor or the IBD AMAP side armor ?

Did the pso armor have same protection As AMAP?

[jojoisgood]

On 1/11/2023 at 5:43 AM, Yoshi_E said:

This armor block is a one piece block with cutouts for a polymer at a 90% steel 10% polymer ratio, making 4 steel and 3 polymer layers.

 

However I find the use of the screws in this construction rather odd.

These bolts pass through the block and connect to something on its back. There is no threading on these bolts that interact with the steel block. They just pass through.

 

Does anyone know how the backside of this armor block looks like / whats attached to these bolts?

 

Presumably these screws ontop attach to the same thing.

You can even see a glimpse of it next to the gunner optics:

 

what is that armor made of?pure steel plus polymer or what? Is the weight 90%steel or is the thickness ?

 

That block is nearly 600mm thick why would german use steel not other things ? And where did you get the information of 90% steel?

 

Thank you 

 

 

[SH_MM]

On 1/10/2023 at 10:43 PM, Yoshi_E said:

This armor block is a one piece block with cutouts for a polymer at a 90% steel 10% polymer ratio, making 4 steel and 3 polymer layers.

 

However I find the use of the screws in this construction rather odd.

These bolts pass through the block and connect to something on its back. There is no threading on these bolts that interact with the steel block. They just pass through.

 

Does anyone know how the backside of this armor block looks like / whats attached to these bolts?

 

The hinge-mounted armor module next to the gun mantlet consists just of four steel plates and weld lines, just as described by @Wiedzmin.

 

 

How exactly this armor is attached to the turret isn't known to me. I don't think that it is directly screwed into the trunions as there are no attachment points/screw holes, so there might be a small additional steel piece with a slightly more complex geometry.

 

Overall, it is weakspot but probably not that much different in terms of effective protection. Behind that armor block are the trunions and the mount for the gun, so the armor is basically the arrow-shaped add-on module consisting of two layers of heavy NERA, an air gap, ~350 mm of steel, an air gap with potentially some more steel inside and then 200+ mm of gun mount or the trunions.

 

On 1/14/2023 at 4:28 AM, Pardus said:

Solid steel? I really dont see the necessity for that, considering:

 

It is solid steel.

 

On 12/14/2023 at 1:53 AM, Cheburashka said:

Are there any plans or is it even possible to mount Trophy APS on Leos like the 2A7HU or does it have to be factory incorporated like on the newly planned German 2A8?

 

That would be depend on what exactly Hungary ordered. IIRC they placed their order before the Leopard 2A7A1 was ordered, so there might be no connections for an APS like Trophy to the onboard power - however it is not unlikely to ammend a contract to incorporate new requirements that only became apparent during (pre-)production.

 

On 12/23/2023 at 4:40 AM, jojoisgood said:

Swedish test shown that leopard 2 with B tech Hull plus MEXAS HEAVY Add on armor has 750mm of KE protection, so B tech is 350mm,that mean add-on armor have 400mm of protection ?and d tech hull have nearly 600mm of protection ,is that mean leopard 2a7v has nearly 1000mm of ke protection ?

 

That is not really how it works.

 

On 12/23/2023 at 4:40 AM, jojoisgood said:

and also wanna ask that is the armor besides the leopard gun shield thickness around 600mm just pure RHA armoror is it something else?

 

The armor module is just solid steel plates welded together and has an overall thickness much lower than 600 mm, more like 350 mm.

 

On 12/23/2023 at 4:40 AM, jojoisgood said:

Also wanna know did AMAP side armor have 600mm to 700mm of KE protection at 60°? I saw someone says that from war thunder advise of leopard 2 evolution, he said AMAP side have 750mm of CE protection (confirmed )and 600 to 700mm of KE protection,

 

Nobody knows, as the armor's performance is classified and Germany itself is not measuring armor protection in terms of "milimetres of RHA". There also is not just one AMAP package, it is a modular armor kit and it is applied/offered based on the end user's demand.

 

On 12/23/2023 at 4:40 AM, jojoisgood said:

And also wanna ask why leopard 2a8 use trophy as APS not rheinmetall ADS,I think ADS is better It has ability to stop round going fast and doesn't need to care the distance .

 

Because Trophy was initially ordered as urgent operational requirement for the Leopard 2A7A1, being preferred over other options for being more mature/battle tested. The Leopard 2A8 was only ordered as a gapfiller following the delivery of tanks to Ukraine. Integrating another APS into the Leopard 2A8 would have delayed the adoption/order by several months if not years.

 

On 12/23/2023 at 4:40 AM, jojoisgood said:

And did anyone know will leopard 2a7v equipped PSO side armor or the IBD AMAP side armor ?

 

It is prepared for use of KMW's Type E/Panzerung in E-Technologie armor, which is based/derived on the armor developed for the Leopard 2 PSO.

 

On 12/23/2023 at 4:40 AM, jojoisgood said:

Did the pso armor have same protection As AMAP?

 

No.

[SH_MM]

 

[Wiedzmin]

6 hours ago, SH_MM said:

as there are no attachment points

there is two "shelfs" on turret, and block IIRC bolted on to those 

[Wiedzmin]

25 minutes ago, SH_MM said:

 

 

"ATGM hit" yeaaaaah, suuure

 

 

 

same vehicle 

[jojoisgood]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:24 PM, SH_MM said:

 

The hinge-mounted armor module next to the gun mantlet consists just of four steel plates and weld lines, just as described by @Wiedzmin.

 

 

How exactly this armor is attached to the turret isn't known to me. I don't think that it is directly screwed into the trunions as there are no attachment points/screw holes, so there might be a small additional steel piece with a slightly more complex geometry.

 

Overall, it is weakspot but probably not that much different in terms of effective protection. Behind that armor block are the trunions and the mount for the gun, so the armor is basically the arrow-shaped add-on module consisting of two layers of heavy NERA, an air gap, ~350 mm of steel, an air gap with potentially some more steel inside and then 200+ mm of gun mount or the trunions.

 

 

It is solid steel.

 

 

That would be depend on what exactly Hungary ordered. IIRC they placed their order before the Leopard 2A7A1 was ordered, so there might be no connections for an APS like Trophy to the onboard power - however it is not unlikely to ammend a contract to incorporate new requirements that only became apparent during (pre-)production.

 

 

That is not really how it works.

 

 

The armor module is just solid steel plates welded together and has an overall thickness much lower than 600 mm, more like 350 mm.

 

 

Nobody knows, as the armor's performance is classified and Germany itself is not measuring armor protection in terms of "milimetres of RHA". There also is not just one AMAP package, it is a modular armor kit and it is applied/offered based on the end user's demand.

 

 

Because Trophy was initially ordered as urgent operational requirement for the Leopard 2A7A1, being preferred over other options for being more mature/battle tested. The Leopard 2A8 was only ordered as a gapfiller following the delivery of tanks to Ukraine. Integrating another APS into the Leopard 2A8 would have delayed the adoption/order by several months if not years.

 

 

It is prepared for use of KMW's Type E/Panzerung in E-Technologie armor, which is based/derived on the armor developed for the Leopard 2 PSO.

 

 

No.

 bro I think the picture you showed prove that leopard use composite armor instead of pure steel plate,the picture you showed is the outer layer of armor, but if you see the structure of the turret you will notice that if leopard only use that steel plate it will have big gap between new add armor and original gun shield armor, the steel plates is around 350mm or something, and it is definitely not enough, the original leo 2a4 gun shield composite have 420mm of LOS and leopard 2a5 is thicker according to war thunder it is 600mm ,so maybe it is composite armor inside and steel plate out side, or maybe it just have a big air gap,but I don't think it just air gap.

And I wanna ask that why isn't 600+400mm work?

https://lurl.cc/RwZKI

[jojoisgood]

On 1/14/2023 at 7:09 AM, Yoshi_E said:

Thats incorrect, the blocks themselves are much simpler in nature. They are solid steel blocks as I described them previously.

 

What im interested is this part:

 

The part that is secured by the bolts and has been removed here:

I think that bolt is the one that hold the composite armor, https://lurl.cc/RwZKI

The gap part is the position of that hole

[jojoisgood]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:24 PM, SH_MM said:

 

The hinge-mounted armor module next to the gun mantlet consists just of four steel plates and weld lines, just as described by @Wiedzmin.

 

 

How exactly this armor is attached to the turret isn't known to me. I don't think that it is directly screwed into the trunions as there are no attachment points/screw holes, so there might be a small additional steel piece with a slightly more complex geometry.

 

Overall, it is weakspot but probably not that much different in terms of effective protection. Behind that armor block are the trunions and the mount for the gun, so the armor is basically the arrow-shaped add-on module consisting of two layers of heavy NERA, an air gap, ~350 mm of steel, an air gap with potentially some more steel inside and then 200+ mm of gun mount or the trunions.

 

 

It is solid steel.

 

 

That would be depend on what exactly Hungary ordered. IIRC they placed their order before the Leopard 2A7A1 was ordered, so there might be no connections for an APS like Trophy to the onboard power - however it is not unlikely to ammend a contract to incorporate new requirements that only became apparent during (pre-)production.

 

 

That is not really how it works.

 

 

The armor module is just solid steel plates welded together and has an overall thickness much lower than 600 mm, more like 350 mm.

 

 

Nobody knows, as the armor's performance is classified and Germany itself is not measuring armor protection in terms of "milimetres of RHA". There also is not just one AMAP package, it is a modular armor kit and it is applied/offered based on the end user's demand.

 

 

Because Trophy was initially ordered as urgent operational requirement for the Leopard 2A7A1, being preferred over other options for being more mature/battle tested. The Leopard 2A8 was only ordered as a gapfiller following the delivery of tanks to Ukraine. Integrating another APS into the Leopard 2A8 would have delayed the adoption/order by several months if not years.

 

 

It is prepared for use of KMW's Type E/Panzerung in E-Technologie armor, which is based/derived on the armor developed for the Leopard 2 PSO.

 

 

No.

And also if you compare those two picture you can get 600mm LOS 

[SH_MM]

51 minutes ago, jojoisgood said:

And also if you compare those two picture you can get 600mm LOS 

No, its not. Why can't you War Thunder people stop making stuff up?

[jojoisgood]

7 hours ago, SH_MM said:

No, its not. Why can't you War Thunder people stop making stuff up?

I am saying the green line,it is around 600mm ,red line is 866mm it have 200~armor mount for gun so basically 866-200, around 600mm,war thunder is basically right.

And bro we have some pictures showing that the air gap near that yellow line have some armor attached to the bolt, if it just pure steel plate they don't need to separate them, they can just forge them together,and also the swedish have picture shown that armor is additional armor if it just steel plate they won't paint it as yellow, so basically the armor is 350~ steel plate 250~composite armor or something,but definitely not 250~ air gap and 200~armor mount for gun, 600+200=800