Tanks guns and ammunition.

[GreatLengths]

3 minutes ago, GreatLengths said:

I had it released through FOIA, posted it at the below forum post.

 

Testing documentation from the 1972 trials of the MBT-70's XM578 APFSDS - Armor Scientific Forum - tanknet.org

You'll need an account to see the pdf, I think, but it's there.

[Renegade334]

BAE Systems successfully tests guided projectile | BAE Systems

 

 

Quote

In partnership with the U.S. Army, BAE Systems successfully fired a Sub-Caliber Artillery Long-Range Projectile with Enhanced Lethality, our concept for the U.S. Army’s XM1155 sub-caliber program, from a 155 mm XM907E2 58 caliber cannon and impacted a fixed target beyond ranges previously demonstrated by other precision guided projectiles fired from the same type of cannon..

The test at White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico, used a U.S. Army-designed sabot package and confirmed the projectile’s compatibility with the 155 mm Extended Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) Howitzer Test Bed and propelling charges. 

“This successful test confirms our Sub-Caliber Artillery Long-Range Projectile with Enhanced Lethality can defeat long-range targets and advance to follow-on testing out to double the range of existing guided projectile and with sensors to find fixed and moving targets of interest,” said Brent Butcher, vice president and general manager of Weapon Systems at BAE Systems. “We are confident that the projectile is on track to provide the Army the best munitions solution for cannon artillery with a leap ahead capability that will bring a highly lethal, maneuverable projectile to soldiers on the battlefield.” 

Our concept for the U.S. Army’s XM1155-SC program is an advanced, cannon-launched projectile under development for the defeat of fixed and moving targets in contested environments at more than double the range of existing cannon launched precision guided munitions (PGM). The latest PGM in the Hypervelocity Projectile family of munitions, our concept was developed to penetrate and destroy adversary defenses through increased range, advanced guidance, lethality, and survivability. The projectile addresses the Army’s modernization goals for a long-range precision fires munitions solution.  

For the past several years, BAE Systems has invested in the innovation, development and testing of advanced long-range precision fires solutions and has completed more than 100 PGM tests. In early 2022, the predecessor to our XM1155-SC concept, BAE Systems’ Extended Range Hypervelocity Projectile (HVP-ER) successfully destroyed a target at a range of more than 110 kilometers. 

BAE Systems is currently under contract with the U.S. Army to develop and test the projectile as part of the Army’s XM1155 Extended Range Artillery Projectile program.

 

[alanch90]

So the "APFSDS" round for 155mm turned out to be a gun launched saboted kamikaze drone...not entirely sold on the concept but it is interesting nonetheless

https://twitter.com/i/status/1645387021379158018

[Renegade334]

Once upon a time...

 

The swing chamber cannon launcher - MRAAS - for the Future Combat System.

 

 

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2002/gun/smith.pdf

[Toxn]

Question for the ballistics folk - has anyone looked into detonation rather than deflagration as a way to propel a projectile out of a barrel? I am given to understand that it is a Bad Idea (tm), but don't quite know why so long as the peak pressure could be somehow contained. 

[Lord_James]

On 4/17/2023 at 8:09 AM, Toxn said:

Question for the ballistics folk - has anyone looked into detonation rather than deflagration as a way to propel a projectile out of a barrel? I am given to understand that it is a Bad Idea (tm), but don't quite know why so long as the peak pressure could be somehow contained. 

I can’t find where I learned this, and I may be confusing this with something else, so take it with a little salt: 

 

the reason everyone likes deflagrating rather than detonating explosives for projectiles is because you can use longer bore lengths, and all the benefits they bring. It also does spread out the force of the explosion over a slightly-longer-than-instantaneous time, which would keep the peak pressure down, which is nice. 
 

I like to think about it as the difference between launching yourself out of a catapult and riding a horse, inasmuch that the catapult applies its force instantly, and the horse applies its force over a longer duration (this is relating to the internal ballistics, not external ballistics or chemistry). Or the difference between pushing something a set distance, and then trying to move the same object the same distance with a single strike. 

[RIP_USA_07_1776-01_2021]

If the M829A3 and M829A4 have SUPPOSEDLY the same or similar "Specs" in terms of length of Penetrator and Steel Tip and weight as well as both are supposedly just DU and steel not DU and Tungsten, why/how then is the A4 >100m/s faster than the A3 both fired from M256?

Also, why would A4 need Data-Link? Could this A4 Tip be something completely new? Something that needs to go off at just the right moment?

I dunno, the explanation of what it is/why it's worth investment in all new production for the "same" Round just seems like complete Horse$hit..!

[Ramlaen]

9 hours ago, RIP_USA_07_1776-01_2021 said:

If the M829A3 and M829A4 have SUPPOSEDLY the same or similar "Specs" in terms of length of Penetrator and Steel Tip and weight as well as both are supposedly just DU and steel not DU and Tungsten, why/how then is the A4 >100m/s faster than the A3 both fired from M256?

Also, why would A4 need Data-Link? Could this A4 Tip be something completely new? Something that needs to go off at just the right moment?

I dunno, the explanation of what it is/why it's worth investment in all new production for the "same" Round just seems like complete Horse$hit..!

 

The US Army should stop procuring 120mm APFSDS because you don't know what the data link is for?

[SH_MM]

19 hours ago, RIP_USA_07_1776-01_2021 said:

If the M829A3 and M829A4 have SUPPOSEDLY the same or similar "Specs" in terms of length of Penetrator and Steel Tip and weight as well as both are supposedly just DU and steel not DU and Tungsten, why/how then is the A4 >100m/s faster than the A3 both fired from M256?

 

Because they have a different propellant charge.

 

19 hours ago, RIP_USA_07_1776-01_2021 said:

Also, why would A4 need Data-Link? Could this A4 Tip be something completely new? Something that needs to go off at just the right moment?

 

The ADL is a bi-directional interface, so it could be used for taking the propellant temperature of the individual round into account, assuming a temperature sensor is fitted to the round.

[Renegade334]

 

[Renegade334]

 

[BaronTibere]

 

Seems slightly slower than they predicted like 20 years ago

[SH_MM]

Optimal loading conditions = more propellant. DM73 still has the same propellant charge mass (same penetrator and sabot, yet same total mass -> propellant mass was unchanged) as DM63A1.

[TWMSR]

According to RH DM63A1 round is about 21,4 kg. If taken seriously, with same penetrator and sabot, maybe a little heavier case (fabric renforcement) and a little lighter whole round, DM73 got even lower amount of propellant. But how did RH get more velocity then?
Or maybe that part of data sheet is very roughly approximation and new round is heavier.

[SH_MM]

The same brochure lists the DM63A1 also at "approx. 21 kg".

[Ramlaen]

 

What appears to be an M1147 and M829A4 were on display at this years Maneuver Warfare Conference.

[Renegade334]

The US Army is now looking for manufacturers for its tank-killing XM1180 Cannon-Delivered Area Effect Munition (C-DAEM) destined for use in ERCA guns.

 

https://sam.gov/opp/59459a7976b2440cbd64bd5d40d63a47/view

 

Quote

The U.S. Army Contracting Command-New Jersey (ACC-NJ), Picatinny Arsenal, NJ 07806-5000, on behalf of the Project Manager Combat Ammunition Systems (PM CAS), is conducting a market survey to identify potential sources who can produce the C-DAEM Armor munition for Early Operational Capability (EOC) fielding.  The purpose of this market survey is to obtain information from potential sources to begin production at a low rate by 2nd Quarter Fiscal Year 2026.   The current requirements are planned to be restricted to Raytheon in Tucson, Arizona.

The C-DAEM Armor solution is a 155millimeter (mm) artillery projectile designed to engage and defeat armored/mechanized targets at extended ranges to improve the lethality of cannon artillery assets organic to the Brigade Combat Teams. It will support both current and future weapon systems and defeat infantry fighting vehicles, self-propelled howitzers, and main battle tanks.  The Army requires the solution to be compatible with current 39 caliber weapon systems and engage targets out to 35kilometers (km). The solution is desired to operate at the high-muzzle velocities required to achieve 70 km with developmental propellants out of the XM1299 Extended Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) artillery weapon system.

 

[Ramlaen]

4 hours ago, Renegade334 said:

The US Army is now looking for manufacturers for its tank-killing XM1180 Cannon-Delivered Area Effect Munition (C-DAEM) destined for use in ERCA guns.

 

https://sam.gov/opp/59459a7976b2440cbd64bd5d40d63a47/view

 

 

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2021/future/T-MES_Acquisition.pdf

https://www.gd-ots.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/C-DAEM_SMArtER155_202010.pdf

https://jpeoaa.army.mil/Project-Offices/PM-CAS/Organizations/Precision-Attack-Cannon-Munitions/Products/XM11208/

 

 

 

[Ramlaen]

Now that I am looking lol.

 

https://sam.gov/opp/14e43ebc1fd4470fa9a1bcd1eada614f/view
 

Quote

The U.S. Army Contracting Command-New Jersey (ACC-NJ), Picatinny Arsenal, NJ 07806-5000, on behalf of the Project Manager Combat Ammunition Systems (PM CAS), is conducting a market survey to identify potential sources who are capable of producing the C-DAEM Armor Hit to Kill (HTK) munition for Urgent Materiel Release (UMR).  The purpose of this market survey is to obtain information from potential sources within the United States and Canada to begin production at a low rate by 3rd Quarter Fiscal Year 2024.   The current requirements are planned to be restricted to Raytheon Missiles & Defense in Tucson, Arizona.

The C-DAEM Armor HTK solution is a 155 millimeter (mm) artillery projectile designed to engage and defeat armored/mechanized targets at extended ranges to improve the lethality of cannon artillery assets organic to the Brigade Combat Teams. It will support both current and future weapon systems and defeat infantry fighting vehicles, self-propelled howitzers, and main battle tanks.  The Army requires the solution to be compatible with current 39 caliber weapon systems and engage targets out to 35 kilometers (km). The solution is desired to operate at the high-muzzle velocities required to achieve 70 km with developmental propellants out of the XM1299 Extended Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) artillery weapon system.

 

[FORMATOSE]

GIAT vintage video from 1983 about French APFSDS : basic principles, manufacturing process, quality control, testing, beyond-armour effect, packaging. I find it very interesting.

 

https://imagesdefense.gouv.fr/fr/munitions-fleches.html

[Wiedzmin]

 

Spoiler

 

german report(from british archives) about plate quality vs APFSDS real penetration during trials

 

[SH_MM]

 

SHARD demonstaration against different steel targets.

[alanch90]

So this showed up on a recent patent proposing a kinda modified AZ type autoloader capable of fitting enlarged rounds. Seems to me highly likely its the almost mythical Vacuum round.

[SH_MM]

[jojoisgood]

https://iiil.io/h9pB

Chinese DTC 10