The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.

[Belesarius]

To me, at least a wehraboo is someone who either intentionally or because they are legitimately uninformed continues to spread myths about 'superior German engineering' when the end results are an inferior product.  IE, an idiot on a FB group that I'm part of who posted a meme about the Tiger I being vastly superior to the Sherman when that is a demonstrably false statement.  I then clubbed him like a baby seal by linking Jeeps most excellent Sherman website.

 

The folks on this board tend to get irritated with the spreading of false information.

[Sturgeon]

"You've called me 'the most reflexively anti-German person' you'd ever met, previously."

Have I? I have certainly accused you of bias, but that's a hell of a spit ball right there.

 

Oh yeah, last time I was out in Dallas if I recall correctly.

 

There's no shortage of idiots who are German fanboys, and I certainly have no hesitation in calling them out for being fanboys, but how does that translate into a bias against Germans/Germany/German stuff?

[Sturgeon]

To me, at least a wehraboo is someone who either intentionally or because they are legitimately uninformed continues to spread myths about 'superior German engineering' when the end results are an inferior product.  IE, an idiot on a FB group that I'm part of who posted a meme about the Tiger I being vastly superior to the Sherman when that is a demonstrably false statement.  I then clubbed him like a baby seal by linking Jeeps most excellent Sherman website.

 

The folks on this board tend to get irritated with the spreading of false information.

 

The nice thing about having the guy who invented the word "Wehraboo" on the forum is that we don't have to dicker and argue about what it actually means:

 

"A Wehraboo is Someone with a yearning fondness for Terrible fascist military hardware and ancillaries, to which there is no Exception. Such weak-willed Individuals, incapable of seeing the Superiority of efficient Communist or comfortable Capitalist designs, often fall Prey to the cult of persona of Nazi generals and the High Command. They cannot help Themselves but to Shitpost, and must be Cleansed with the Fire of Truth."

-Thomas Jefferson

[Alex C.]

I suppose my conclusion was strengthened by the factors I listed above, and reinforced by the great sturmgewehr opinion battle of 2015. I have never seen a group of men get so twisted up about such a trivial subject.

Or maybe my passion for such things is subsiding a bit and my inclination towards arguing on the web has diminished.

[Sturgeon]

I suppose my conclusion was strengthened by the factors I listed above, and reinforced by the great sturmgewehr opinion battle of 2015. I have never seen a group of men get so twisted up about such a trivial subject.

Or maybe my passion for such things is subsiding a bit and my inclination towards arguing on the web has diminished.

 

The whole MP.44 thing is depressing and a bit disgusting, even though I am responsible for much of it. I knew it would cause an Internet-wide Preparation H shortage when I wrote it, but this is nuts.

A lot of what I said I thought would be self-evident and be difficult to dispute, and of course I think I am/was on the "right" side of the debate, but to someone who doesn't agree with my analysis it must look like I am a real shitter right about now...

[Toxn]

I suppose my conclusion was strengthened by the factors I listed above, and reinforced by the great sturmgewehr opinion battle of 2015. I have never seen a group of men get so twisted up about such a trivial subject.

Or maybe my passion for such things is subsiding a bit and my inclination towards arguing on the web has diminished.

One of the issues when talking about German stuff is how internalised a lot of the bias is.

If you say that an American design is flawed then you're seen as criticising the design. At worst you're seen as biased against a company. But criticise a German design and you're suddenly seen as blasting an entire people.

Here's a good way to detect this issue: replace the name of the gun and its place of origin with somewhere nobody cares about and make the exact same arguments. If people still read the piece as being biased then it probably is.

[Sturgeon]

One of the issues when talking about German stuff is how internalised a lot of the bias is.

If you say that an American design is flawed then you're seen as criticising the design. At worst you're seen as biased against a company. But criticise a German design and you're suddenly seen as blasting an entire people.

Here's a good way to detect this issue: replace the name of the gun and its place of origin with somewhere nobody cares about and make the exact same arguments. If people still read the piece as being biased then it probably is.

 

That's basically the point I was making with this post: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/11/18/the-rsc-mle-1917-the-m1-garand-and-the-stg-44/

[Toxn]

That's basically the point I was making with this post: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/11/18/the-rsc-mle-1917-the-m1-garand-and-the-stg-44/'>http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/11/18/the-rsc-mle-1917-the-m1-garand-and-the-stg-44/

I know, but I think the point went over people's heads for the most part.

[Brick Fight]

I wrote another big self-excusing write-up, but I think most of us get a little salty because it gets frustrating when you try to inform, and people don't even want to take the information you give them. It's not that they know the drawbacks of a Tiger or the shortcomings of Rommel and choose to come out with a favorable opinion, it's just that they won't accept the realities, period. It's incredibly frustrating, so we play with each other with the discussion to let off steam for the most part. As a branch to the thread and to my Teutonic ancestors, a picture of the Loewe-made Argentine Mauser that's been in the family for 70 years:

 

[Collimatrix]

Just got to spend some time fussing with, but not shooting a Grand Power mk 12.

 

Thing is absurdly hard to re-assemble after field stripping.  Just awful.  Trigger is quite good.  The slide is a bit wide, which is a common problem with rotating barrel pistols.  Mechanical accuracy is probably very good; the barrel to slide lockup is tight and the barrel is slightly belled to center snugly in the slide.  Bore axis is surprisingly high.  The firing pin hole appears to be drilled at an angle to put the firing pin head near the top of the slide.  Extractor design is interesting.  The machining is very high quality; much better than it has to be in several places.

[Tied]

Found Karl's workstation, he seems to even have on the taticool repo mp-44s

[Meplat]

Found Karl's workstation, he seems to even have on the taticool repo mp-44s

Mentioned this before, but I cannot imagine the ammo they're feeding that pig is "fresh" by any stretch of the term.

[Collimatrix]

It's probably fairly recent, Cold War vintage stuff.  The Germans barely made any 7.92x33mm during the war, but a lot of people used the rifles after the war, including Yugoslavia:

 

 

If I had to guess, there's probably way more Yugo surplus out there than there is German WWII surplus.

 

Also, apparently some AKs in Pakistan use 7.92x33:

 

 

Because reasons.

[Sturgeon]

I was going to mention that Prvi in Serbia still makes 7.92x33 and ships it in military packaging. There's still a decent bit of demand for the stuff.

 

Prvi is sort of the village bicycle of ammo manus, since they are apparently coming out with 6.8 SPC, as well. The popularity of that cartridge having long since waned on the US commercial market, I am assuming this is because the Jordanians have placed orders.

[Alex C.]

When all those guns were "found" in Syria, the ammuntion mysteriously became available in pretty massive quantities that I had not seen in 5 years of looking. Prvi used to make a little run once a year that would sell out asap, but now it is in stock everywhere pretty much all the time.

[Brick Fight]

Prvi must have some serious contracts. I can't think of a lot of other reasons why stuff like .303 is so cheap from them. I've had a better experience shooting both their 150gr. and 175gr. for half the price of any competitor.

[Sturgeon]

[Alex C.]

"Remember, planes have a lot of vulnerable spots. Like the engine.... or the pilot."

 

Lol.

[Brick Fight]

It must have been hard relaying this kind of stuff to the average person plucked into service.

[Khand-e]

It must have been hard relaying this kind of stuff to the average person plucked into service.

 

"Hitting you enemies with projectiles from the barrel end of your shooting stick will cause nazis, fascists and imperialist emperor worshiping scum to fall over and stop attacking you!"

[Brick Fight]

"Hitting you enemies with projectiles from the barrel end of your shooting stick will cause nazis, fascists and imperialist emperor worshiping scum to fall over and stop attacking you!"

Haha, but you know what I mean. "Some of you have never seen a plane with your own two eyes. Well there's gonna be a bunch of them trying to kill you, and some of you will either fly them or work on them."

[LoooSeR]

Kyrgyz SFs

[LoooSeR]

From Gunza (Forum.guns.ru)

 

   In the near TV program of the First channel "Serving to the Fatherland" will be presented to the public a prototype of the new machine gun by concern "Kalashnikov" in 5.45 mm. 

The users of our forum are lucky enough to look at it a little earlier:

 

 

 

 

Their competitor looks more interesting

[LoooSeR]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/11/30/forgotten-weapons-plus-ultra/

Katie A strikes back and now we see why Merica needs NKVD troikas.

[Meplat]

I was going to mention that Prvi in Serbia still makes 7.92x33 and ships it in military packaging. There's still a decent bit of demand for the stuff.

 

Prvi is sort of the village bicycle of ammo manus, since they are apparently coming out with 6.8 SPC, as well. The popularity of that cartridge having long since waned on the US commercial market, I am assuming this is because the Jordanians have placed orders.

 

That's a recent development to my knowledge (post '80's) , the majority of postwar Kurz I've seen was Czech, and of near identical manufacture to WW2 German.

It's probably fairly recent, Cold War vintage stuff.  The Germans barely made any 7.92x33mm during the war, but a lot of people used the rifles after the war, including Yugoslavia:

 

 

 

If I had to guess, there's probably way more Yugo surplus out there than there is German WWII surplus.

 

Also, apparently some AKs in Pakistan use 7.92x33:

 

 

Because reasons.

Again, most of what I've found has been Czech.

 

When all those guns were "found" in Syria, the ammuntion mysteriously became available in pretty massive quantities that I had not seen in 5 years of looking. Prvi used to make a little run once a year that would sell out asap, but now it is in stock everywhere pretty much all the time.

IIRC Syria was one of the few major postwar users, and this was where much of the "shootable" 7,92 Kurz in the States came from, via Interarms.