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StuG III Thread (and also other German vehicles I guess)

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33 minutes ago, Scolopax said:

I didn't realize the Germans used wheeled transporters at all until looking it up, and even then it doesn't seem they were very prevalent at all. Biggest vehicle on one I saw in my quick search was a Panzer IV bridgelayer.

 

Maybe the Panther's final drives wouldn't have been such a disastrous issue had they diesel-powered tank transporters available. Also would probably help with the fuel issues... but German logistics in WW2 is a sad story in general.

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11 minutes ago, TokyoMorose said:

 

Maybe the Panther's final drives wouldn't have been such a disastrous issue had they diesel-powered tank transporters available. Also would probably help with the fuel issues... but German logistics in WW2 is a sad story in general.

 

45 tons is just too heavy for a early 1940's medium tank. 

 

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2 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

I just think it's funny that we had a tank transporter big enough to haul a Jagdtiger and the German's didn't.

 

 

And it was just the standard, M26 Dragonwagon, not a special vehicle, America made the best trucks of all kinds back then. 

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On 6/29/2018 at 2:03 AM, TokyoMorose said:

 

Maybe the Panther's final drives wouldn't have been such a disastrous issue had they diesel-powered tank transporters available. Also would probably help with the fuel issues... but German logistics in WW2 is a sad story in general.

 

Opting for a petrol engine with a front-mounted transmission was already questionable.

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On 6/29/2018 at 2:11 AM, LoooSeR said:

Ha! Capitalists didn't had best Heavy tank and best assault gun back then!

 

These were silly weapons, a good capitalist would scoff at building, such a waste of resources! Heavy tanks, so German anyway, and assault guns need turrets!

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On 6/28/2018 at 5:03 PM, TokyoMorose said:

 

Maybe the Panther's final drives wouldn't have been such a disastrous issue had they diesel-powered tank transporters available. Also would probably help with the fuel issues... but German logistics in WW2 is a sad story in general.

 

 

No, a tank with final drives that last on average 150 kilometers, is still a total trash tank, even if, by an evil God, the Nazi Germans had an auto industry that wasn't a shitshow, and a capable producing a decent heavy truck. 

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On 7/1/2018 at 8:40 AM, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 

No, a tank with final drives that last on average 150 kilometers, is still a total trash tank, even if, by an evil God, the Nazi Germans had an auto industry that wasn't a shitshow, and a capable producing a decent heavy truck. 

 

Oh, I am in complete agreement. The Germans managed to build the world's first transforming tank - drive a Panther 150km and it turns into a pillbox! It's just you'd think that faced with such disastrous longevity, they'd try to develop a transporter so they don't have to drive around said tanks.

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MBDA's proposal for the German NNbS program/qualified air-defence system is to use the MPCV turret on either the Boxer or the Dingo 2 6x6:

zfymEAg.pngS7MkvgP.png

 

 


3WTk5QI.pngE08TvU5.png
 

 

 

This system will compete against Rheinmetall's self-propelled anti-air gun system wtih a 35 mm gun. Rheinmetall is also planning a variant with the IRIS-T SLS surface-to-air missile and a seperate fire control/radar vehicle, all based on the Boxer (potato quality rendering):

 

PwwwJmj.png

 

The 35 mm Millenium gun has a maximal range (when firing AHEAD ammunition) of less than 4,000 metres; the Mistral 3 MANPADS used on the MPCV turret have an effective range of 6,000 metres (against fast moving targets). The IRIS-T SLS missile has a range of more than 10,000 metres. IMO the proposal with the MPCV turret is interesting, if it can be modified to work with larger guns than the currently offered 12.7 mm M2 HMG. The German army is looking to replace the old Stinger models either with the newest production model of the Stinger or the Mistral 3 - although it appears that Stinger will be prefered. In the ideal case, all three systems would be purchased to provide the best possible air defence, but budget reality will probably make sure we'll see only one of them becoming adopted.

 

Here are a few photos from the recent Bundeswehr day:

28299179177_063abb4986_h.jpg

28825482788_1f30482a12_h.jpg

42694546131_2b929a4f78_k.jpg

41789434385_80d379093e_h.jpg

 

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And here I wonder, what the heck happened to the setup of medium caliber guns coupled with missiles.

The Russian Pantsir got it right. A good mass of missiles, but also decent enough main gun to handle a lot of targets. What're 4 Mistral missiles going to do anyway against a saturation attack?

 

But maybe instead of a medium caliber gun they should apply a laser system. I believe many referred to 100kW as being the most suitable output if they want a single effector per target, and of course more power is welcome. Such capability already exists.

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Putting Stingers on a 25t+ vehicle like a Boxer sounds like a cheap excuse to get rid of the topic :unsure:. IRIS-T SLS could at least close the gap to 9k121s and 9M120s *sigh*

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MI74bfef_Rheinmetall_Lynx_1DMJ0747.jpg

Lynx as APC

 

On 7/14/2018 at 4:19 PM, Mighty_Zuk said:

And here I wonder, what the heck happened to the setup of medium caliber guns coupled with missiles.

The Russian Pantsir got it right. A good mass of missiles, but also decent enough main gun to handle a lot of targets. What're 4 Mistral missiles going to do anyway against a saturation attack? 

 

But maybe instead of a medium caliber gun they should apply a laser system. I believe many referred to 100kW as being the most suitable output if they want a single effector per target, and of course more power is welcome. Such capability already exists.

 

The Russian Pantsir system is a lot more bulky and complex than what is realistically possible to be fielded on the Boxer in the near future ( at least without major modifications). The concept is good, but the Pantsir itself is already dated; missiles, radar systems and guns aren't up to date. It is/was certainly a great solution, but is not very practical for the current sitatution of the German military.

 

The NNbS program is not necessarily limited to a single system, although only one will probably meant to provide protection against fast, low-flying drones. I guess the problem with the currently proposed options is that Rheinmetall doesn't make missiles, while MBDA doesn't make guns. Originally both companies cooperated to develop the MPCV turret, but that was unrelated to the NNbS program (not started back then) and mostly was meant as an alternative to Rheinmetall's Skyarcher turret/ASRAD.

 

In theory both options could be improved. Here is Rheinmetall's proposal for the SysFla based on the Gefas. Note that they added six surface-to-air missiles to the Skyranger turret, so the Boxer also should be able to receive SAMs as secondary armament.

rde_sysfla6cqc.jpg

 

MBDA claims that the MPCV turret also can accept other guns than just the M2 HMG. What type of guns exactly is not mentioned, but when fitted with a 27 mm Mauser BK-27 gun or an autocannon chambered in 30 x 113 mm (M230LF or Venom gun), I think it would be a bit more useful.

The LFK NG, an IRIS-T variant meant to replace the Stinger missile on the Eurocopter Tiger and the Wiesel 2 Ozelot SAM carrier, was apparently canceled with no replacement. The IRIS-T SLS is too large to be added as secondary weapon system to a gun turret and is also not containerized. That means it is either going to be MANPADS or Germany has to buy a new SAM system from a foreign supplier.

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Puma is too small... (in German):

 

http://www.deutschesheer.de/portal/a/heer/start/aktuell/nachrichten/jahr2018/august2018/!ut/p/z1/hY9PC4JAEMW_kbP-t-NKJBJaaFnuJRZdbMN2ZdmkQx--XQJv0hwezHszv2GAwBWIoDMfqOZS0NH0LYlu0SbIM69GReadMcJNddo3RelmhwAauPwbISZGK4UR1D2D1jDidYYPNRAgPXM6KZi2qpnQ3OigqJbKmaTSo01eSpnE4T20yN2mKFxOuZ_UT3AcBUG0zdPKAh90pu9ll3b2aWjvVPQjO8oO_4zpuUvKMhy-m8qbQg!!/dz/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/#Z7_694IG2S0MG2UA0AVRTKVMN1GO3

 

Depending on seat location, the height limit for soldiers in the Puma is either 1.91 metres (equal to somehwere between 90-95 percentil of the height of a German man) or 1.84 metres (equal to only ~75 percentil of the height of a German man). This design decision was originally accepted in 2003, because not caring much about taller soldiers allowed to increase the level of protection for a given weight. In 2013 the German army requested to change the Puma's design to incorporate taller soldiers (probably because the end of conscription lead to a smaller pool of soldiers being available). Before 2013 the army didn't asked for the changes, because investigating the internal ergonomics (which limit the soldiers' height) was only seen as reasonable on vehicles close to the series production configuration.

 

Apparently the decoupled seats and other security related factors are main factors limiting the maximum soldier height in the Puma's rear compartment, so improvements to them could allow taller soldiers to fit into the specified height range.

 

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On 8/1/2018 at 12:35 PM, SH_MM said:

Puma is too small... (in German):

Work safety regulations :wacko:. Strike two after the 41 hour regulation.

Edit: Oh but there is also something positive. While work safety regulations are a problem for people above 1,84m, pregnancy is no problem because this issue got some attention during the design phase.
Send the the pregnant women to repel the red invaders!

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Is there actually any documentation on the sideskirts that are portrayed on most model kits and video game models of the E-100? If thats the case what were the supposed armored values? I think its also pretty much an innovation in german armour design in WW2. Havent seen any addon/modular armor on other WW2 tanks.

 

example here:

Spoiler

Model kit:

81tGKJVIasL._SL1500_.jpg

WoT:

maxresdefault.jpg

War Thunder:

e-100a2.jpg

 

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