General artillery, SPGs, MLRS and long range ATGMs thread.

[Ramlaen]

US Army selects unspecified variants of the Tomahawk and SM-6. I suspect the SM-6 will not be for AAW.

 

https://breakingdefense.com/2020/11/army-picks-tomahawk-sm-6-for-mid-range-missiles/

[Serge]

Nexter will answer the US Army RFP with its CAESAR. 

https://forcesoperations.com/le-caesar-de-nexter-tente-laventure-americaine/?fbclid=IwAR2yO7KltHtTUdyNZEJxxywA7FJWaDEHxXzBZIxLnvagwvee6kIYy_Vv-rs

[Serge]

14 hours ago, Serge said:

Nexter will answer the US Army RFP with its CAESAR. 

https://forcesoperations.com/le-caesar-de-nexter-tente-laventure-americaine/?fbclid=IwAR2yO7KltHtTUdyNZEJxxywA7FJWaDEHxXzBZIxLnvagwvee6kIYy_Vv-rs

Translation :

 « 

The U.S. Army is looking for a 155 mm self-propelled gun to replace the towed howitzers of the forces present in Europe. A Request for Proposal (RFP) was issued last July for evaluations conducted in early 2021 in the United States, a request to which Nexter will respond with versions 6×6 and 8×8 of its CAESAR. BRUTUS vs CAESAR Will CAESAR rewrite history by going to defeat BRUTUS on its own turf? Designed by the Americans AM General and Mandus Group, the latter hoped for a duel with the Archer system produced by the British group BAE Systems. This was without counting on the French troublemaker, which is about to begin negotiations with the US Army. In issuing this RFP, the U.S. Army is considering the acquisition of a "more mobile, lethal and durable 155 mm system to replace its current fleet of towed howitzers." Lacking such capacity, the U.S. military wants to probe the market and gather the data needed to guide future needs issued by the Joint Program Executive Office Armaments and Ammunition (JPEO A-A). The assessments will take place at the Yuma, Arizona test field, which includes an 89 km deep artillery firing range. Each selected candidate will be assigned a test window of approximately three months between January and May 2021. Several companies will be able to be selected for this initial phase, but only one will be awarded a production contract for a batch of 18 pieces for further experimentation. The first deliveries are expected, at best, in the first half of 2023. These guns will primarily equip the Stryker Combat Brigades (SBCT). A combined force centered on the Stryker wheeled vehicle, an SBCT is designed to maximize the balance between mobility and firepower. Its fire support capability is based on an artillery battalion consisting of three six-piece M777A2 155 mm batteries. The limited range of this howitzer, as well as increased mobility requirements, contributed to the launch of a replacement program as early as February 2018. Since 2016, the U.S. Army has been studying the introduction of an improved version of this howitzer that could double the maximum range. The resulting lengthening of the tube nevertheless affects the system's mobility in difficult terrain, leading to the emphasis on self-propelled artillery. Too heavy, too slow, a tracked tracker is excluded in favor of a wheeled vehicle, the most able to accompany as closely as possible the manoeuvring units in their progression. In the event of a generalization of the self-propelled gun to all TSCs, the initial target will evolve to typically "American" proportions. That is, several dozen copies, several years of workload for the selected industrialist and a potential springboard to other prestigious customers, the US Marine Corps in the lead. The legacy of TF Lafayette and Wagram Self-propelled guns on wheels, many armies want them, few have them and only one regularly deploys them in OPEX: the Army. Of the three candidates currently in the running, CAESAR is the only one that can claim to be "fight come" for more than a decade. It was through joint operations that he was able to demonstrate his capabilities to the U.S. military. In Afghanistan, first, where the artillery of GTIA Surobi and Kapisa of TF Lafayette will have been regularly used by American troops. Then in Iraq, where the French gunners of the TF Wagram carried out more than 2500 fire missions between 2016 and 2019 alongside their American counterparts. Two different operational environments, but in which caesar's agility and firepower will have made a strong impression on foreign partners. With a corolaire that, on the American side, holds in five words: "We want it too." It is also this SOUTEX "in contact" with the Army that will weigh in the balance when the JPEO A and A has to decide. Apart from its operational results, CAESAR is the only one to tick virtually all commercial and technical boxes. Heavier and more complex due to the automatic loading system, the Archer is also much more expensive and has so far only been adopted by Sweden. The first of 48 systems ordered did not enter service in the Swedish Army until 2016. The Archer's main advantage ultimately is the ability to take advantage of the strike force of the powerful U.S. subsidiary of BAE Systems, a long-time supplier to the U.S. Army. When the Archer is still looking for a first export customer, the CAESAR is a proven commercial success with more than 300 copies sold worldwide. And this customer book has expanded further this year with the 36 pieces acquired by Morocco and the contract negotiations underway with the Czech Republic for the delivery of 52 copies. As required in the RFP, the French gun is fully compatible with the BONUS and Excalibur guided munitions of the American portfolio, the first being the product of a co-development between Nexter Munitions and Bofors (BAE Systems). As for the BRUTUS, it is certainly the only one to be a 100% American product and has already been evaluated by the US Army. But if it plays the card of simplicity by relying on the combination of an FMTV 6×6 truck and a tube identical to that of the M777A2, its development is not yet complete. The use of this 155/39 caliber gun still limits its range to 22 km with standard ammunition, compared to up to 38 km for Caesar. The FMTV does not include crew protection, loading system, or built-in ammunition locker, when CAESAR carries 18 fire-ready rounds for version 6×6 and 30 for chassis 8×8. The BRUTUS must therefore be accompanied permanently by a second FMTV to transport the five to seven gunners needed for its implementation and to supply it with shells. With the consequences of battery life, mobility and battery time. The U.S. Army will potentially have to choose between protectionism that means less capacity and pragmatism that is more conducive to a foreign solution. Start of response, if Nexter is selected and the schedule met, in about six months. Copyright © 2011-2020 FOB - Forces Operations Blog - All Rights Reserved. »

[Beer]

Do you know if Nexter would offer the system on its usual chassis or it would addopt it to some specific American ones? 

[Alzoc]

10 minutes ago, Beer said:

Do you know if Nexter would offer the system on its usual chassis or it would addopt it to some specific American ones? 

Given that it already exist on Renault Sherpa, Mercedes Unimog and Tatra 815 chassis, I guess there would be no problem to mount it on an American built one.

Just have to make sure that it won't break when the gun is fired (or after extensive use).

[LoooSeR]

 

[LoooSeR]

 

Ukraine can't into SPGs?

[Beer]

They seem to buy everything which worked in the current NKR conflict.

[LoooSeR]

2 hours ago, Beer said:

They seem to buy everything which worked in the current NKR conflict.

   They can't buy incompetent enemy army that sits in passive defense almost whole time and don't mobilise forces.

[LoooSeR]

   Unusual type of guided rocket types that don't use GPS - Grads with EPIK from Rafael.

 

 

[LoooSeR]

   Uragan-1M MRLS (modular) and reload vehicle

 

Spoiler

 

   Tornado-G (moded Grad)

 

Spoiler

 

   Tornado-S (updated Smerch with higher level of automatisation of launch procedures)

 

Spoiler

 

[LoooSeR]

   Azerbaijan, looks like 107 mm MRLS used by mountain units during NKR war.

[LoooSeR]

   Libya, LNA, Morawa modular MRLS and G5 155mm self-propelled howitzer.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Ramlaen]

 

[Beer]

Ukraine developed modernised Uragan heavy MLRS called Bureviy. It's placed on Tatra 815-7 chassis instead of usual Ukrainean KrAZ as it looks like KrAZ is no more a functional manufacturer.

 

[LoooSeR]

   TOS-1 and -1A will receive new rockets with 15 km max range + new digital network equipment.

https://iz.ru/1090628/anton-lavrov-roman-kretcul/mashiny-ogon-samokhodnye-ognemety-zhdet-sereznaia-modernizatciia

Quote

   Sources in the military department told Izvestia that a fundamental decision to modernize TOS-1 and TOS-1A has already been made. Newly released vehicles will receive updates first. And the systems already delivered to the troops will be upgraded during the repair process. Improving the characteristics of the technique was required due to the growing range and changes in tasks for heavy flamethrower systems, the interlocutors explained. In addition to modern digital means of communication, TOS will also receive equipment for a closed data transmission segment, known as the "military Internet". This will make it possible to integrate the vehicles not only into reconnaissance and fire circuits, but also into the most modern automated control systems of the tactical level. Subsequently, it is planned to adapt for them the latest long-range ammunition, used so far only by TOS-2 "Tosochka".

 

   Now the troops of radiation, chemical and biological protection (RHBZ) units are armed with up to a hundred heavy flamethrower systems of two modifications: TOS-1 "Buratino" based on the T-72 tank and the improved TOS-1A "Solntsepek" on the T-90 chassis. All these vehicles will be improved. According to the military department, earlier in the exercises "Center-2019" they already tested a new organizational and staff structure for the massive use of "Solntsepek". And on strategic maneuvers "Kavkaz-2020" TOS-2 used long-range missiles TBS-4M with thermobaric warhead. The range of the first Buratino weapons was only 3.5 km. Subsequently, it was brought to 6 km. New ammunition, tested in exercises in 2020, will increase the reach at once by two and a half times, up to 15 km. Izvestia reported on the development of these missiles back in 2016. Also, according to Izvestia, all tracked TOS of the Southern Military District will be replaced by wheeled Tosochka by 2025. But in other regions of the country, "Buratino" and "Solntsepeki" will be in service with units and subdivisions of the RKhBZ for a long time.

   Probably at cost of something else - maybe less ammunition will be carried thanks to increased weight of launcher unit (longer range rockets looks like require longer launch tubes, as Tosochka shown).

[Beer]

Dana M2 being produced for Ukraine. More photos: https://thedeaddistrict.blogspot.com/2020/11/the-czech-dana-m2-sphs-are-already.html

 

Catalog of artillery Excalibur artillery products with some photos of the FCS etc. https://www.excaliburarmy.cz/download/product/6/ea-artillery-program-howitzers-mlrs.pdf

[Beer]

More details about the Ukrainean Dana M2 deal.

https://www.armadninoviny.cz/houfnice-dana-m2-pro-ukrajinu-puvodni-objednavka-znela-66-houfnic.html

 

In short:

- the contract was signed in 2018 and originally was for 66 units however it was reduced to 26 (possibly for financial reasons)

- the contract contains 5000 HE-Frag and 1000 long range DN1CZ rounds

- the price of the contract is 40 million USD

 

The article discusses the controversy going around it especially due to the fact that the SPH uses the same old 152 mm old gun as the original vz.77 Dana, i.e. it's limited to maximum 25,5 km range, however it names a lot of reasons why it is still reasonably good deal for Ukraine. 

- Ukraine doesn't produce 155 mm ammo (Artem company went bankrupt with large debts) and Dana can fire Soviet 152 mm ammo

- Ukraine probably isn't able to buy guided ammo and without it the fire on longer distances than 25 km makes little sense due to an enormous ammo quantity needed for guaranteed destruction of the target

- Dana still outranges most of the other artillery guns around such as the most common 2S1, 2S3, D-20 and D-30  

- The vehicle has number of advantages, namely fully automated operation with 36 ready-to-fire rounds, large ammo capacity (36+24), crew under armor during fire, high tactical mobility, modern FCS with automatic setting of action position, short time to deploy and to leave (90/60 seconds), higher rate of fire than most of the other guns around (5 RPM initial, 4 RPM sustained), high reliability and lower cost

- The article states that Dana M2 is able to deploy, fire accurately 6 rounds and leave in 220 seconds and repeat this cycle six times by using only ammo stored in the automatic magazine which makes it rather safe from counter-battery fire 

- They also mention that Azeri Dana M1 were successfully used in Nagorno Karabakh on the souther front where they were heavily engaged in battles of Handrut, Schushi and Lachin corridor including repelling Armenian counter offensive on 7-9. October 

- Last but not least the article states that from the EU and Western countries only Czech and Slovak companies are willing/allowed to sell heavy weapons to Ukraine 

 

At the end it's mentioned that Ukraine is indeed going to use Tatra chassis in the future. For now it's confirmed for Neptum AShM and Bureviy heavy MLRS. 

[LoooSeR]

Quote

   The Central Scientific Research Institute of Precision Engineering (TsNIITOCHMASH) of the State Corporation Rostec has completed acceptance tests of the 120-mm self-propelled artillery gun "Lotos" (index 2S42). The combat vehicle for the airborne troops has confirmed compliance with the specified tactical and technical characteristics.

   The test program, which includes 57 points, made it possible to assess the performance of all units, mechanisms and instruments of the weapon. During the tests "Lotus" covered 400 km and fired 14 shots.

   The military representation in TsNIITOCHMASH signed an official document on the compliance of the SPG prototype with working design documentation and readiness for preliminary tests.

   "Lotos" has a mass of no more than 18 tons, maximum speed - 70 km / h, engine power - 450 hp, cruising range - not less than 500 km. The combat crew consists of four people. The firing range is up to 13 km. The CAO was created on a chassis unified in units and assemblies with the BMD-4M, equipped with a fighting compartment with a 120-mm gun with a high degree of automation of preparation and firing operations.

   Initial factory tests done, will be transfered to MoD for trials.

 

[LoooSeR]

   Posting news about this ATGM here, as it is for vehicles only, even if it size is more fit for infantry-carried ATGM.

https://iz.ru/1092828/2020-11-27/seriinoe-proizvodstvo-noveishei-rakety-bulat-nachnetsia-v-2022-godu

Quote

   Serial production of the newest Bulat missile will begin in 2022

 

   Serial production of the newest Bulat guided missile is scheduled for 2022. This was announced on Friday, November 27, by the industrial director of the armaments complex of the state corporation "Rostec" Bekkhan Ozdoev.

 

   “We are making an experimental batch of Bulats for preliminary tests as part of a combat vehicle. Given that the completion of development work is generally planned at the end of 2021, the serial production of these guided missiles is planned to begin in 2022, "RIA Novosti reports.

   According to Ozdoev, flight tests of the missile, designed to destroy lightly armored vehicles, were completed with a positive result in September, and its stable flight at the maximum range in the entire operating temperature range was confirmed. "Bulat" is planned to be used in addition to anti-tank guided missiles "Kornet", reported in the holding "High-Precision Complexes", an enterprise - the developer of weapons (part of "Rostec").

 

    The beginning of flight tests of "Bulat" was reported in August. The missile is capable of hitting targets at a distance of at least 3 km - both lightly armored enemy vehicles and low-flying targets - drones and helicopters. Small-sized guided "Bulats" will add additional firepower to the "Kornets" and will occupy a niche between the anti-tank guided missile and the main gun of a combat vehicle, experts explained.

   This also gives kind of inderect reference to timeline of Epokha turret production.

 

[LoooSeR]

   Exercises in Tadjikistan of Russian and Tadjikistan forces. Mass Grad (0:10) and Uragan (1:32) strikes.

 

[LoooSeR]

   106th Brigade of LNA (Libyan National Army) and veterans - M-30 122 mm cannons.

 

Spoiler

 

[Stimpy75]

new chinese SPH, not much info

Spoiler

 

 

 

[LoooSeR]

27 minutes ago, Stimpy75 said:

new chinese SPH, not much info

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

   Yeah, at first glance it looks like PLZ-05, but looking closer differences are visible. 7 rollers per side instead of 6, different shape of turret, new MZ radar assembly on gun. Cannon externally looks exactly same as it was on PLZ-05.

   IMO new version/modernised "PLZ-05". Changes (at least externally) are not big.

[LoooSeR]

   Uragan MRLS on BAZ chassis