Gun Ready Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 Good statements! One question? Does anybody know whether Poland has a ban on use of Uranium? The latest protection versions of Abrams come with depleted uranium armour. For the delivery to Australia that had to be replaced by tungsten sheets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Gun Ready said: Good statements! One question? Does anybody know whether Poland has a ban on use of Uranium? The latest protection versions of Abrams come with depleted uranium armour. For the delivery to Australia that had to be replaced by tungsten sheets! Excellent question. The answer will greatly affect just how good a tank Poland gets - both armor and ammunition. I haven't heard that issue raised in any of the reporting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alzoc Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 5 hours ago, Gun Ready said: Good statements! One question? Does anybody know whether Poland has a ban on use of Uranium? The latest protection versions of Abrams come with depleted uranium armour. For the delivery to Australia that had to be replaced by tungsten sheets! It's unlikely that Poland have any kind of ban on DU. I don't know how polish citizens view nuclear power but their government and science community have always been pro-nuclear. Right now Poland rely largely on coal to produce it's electricity. Nuclear energy was viewed has a viable alternative to supply the growing needs of the country and there was quite a lot of cooperation with France on the industrial, scientifical and institutional fronts (cooperation which has considerably soured since the PiS got the majority in 2015). DU being a by-product of nuclear industry if they are for the later, they won't have a problem with the former. I don't know what is the opinion of the current polish government on nuclear energy, but it is unlikely that it has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadlo Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 16 hours ago, Hal said: Buy new Leo2s from the Germans? Get screwed on the price, no significant industrial bump, and it would still take as long or longer than the M1s. (No, no industrial bump from the Abrams deal either, they're in a hurry - see below) Well, almost 30% of spare parts for Polish Leopards 2A5 were made in the previous year in Poland. Excluding thermal cameras, machine guns and L44 cannons. Also we repair MB 873 engines at level 4 in Poland. And the agreement about licence production of Rheinmetall tank guns in Poland was signed today - currently only about L44 or even L44A1 but it looks like it may cover up future licence production of L55/L55A1 or even 130mm tank gun. Additionally WZM from Posen which repairs Polish Leopard 2A5 is currently building own welding shop so it looks like they can be ready to produce Leopards in Poland in agreement with KMW. Few years ago they even offered production of Leopard 2A7V in their factory. Gun Ready and Żółć 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Ready Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 Interesting information about WZM. I cannot imagine that KMW would give them a license to produce Leopard 2 A7V. I believe they wanna make the business on there own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laser Shark Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 If they are okay with producing Leos in Spain and Greece, it’s hard to see why they wouldn’t approve of a factory in Poland too, especially if it means securing a contract for up to 800 Leo 2A7V and denying ground to competitors like Hyundai Rotem. Heck, even in Norway, where much less is at stake, it seems KMW are perfectly willing to let the local industry get a substantial share of the work if the reports are true. Rico and Żółć 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 10 hours ago, Gun Ready said: Interesting information about WZM. I cannot imagine that KMW would give them a license to produce Leopard 2 A7V. I believe they wanna make the business on there own. As far as I remember WZM and FFG teamed to produce WiSENT at WZM. Not sure how the current status is but demonstration was done years ago in DK. https://www.defence24.com/polish-army-eyes-acquisition-of-heavy-armoured-recovery-vehicles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 17 hours ago, Laser Shark said: If they are okay with producing Leos in Spain and Greece, it’s hard to see why they wouldn’t approve of a factory in Poland too, especially if it means securing a contract for up to 800 Leo 2A7V and denying ground to competitors like Hyundai Rotem. Heck, even in Norway, where much less is at stake, it seems KMW are perfectly willing to let the local industry get a substantial share of the work if the reports are true. But none of this has happened with Poland, even with the stated desire to acquire many more tanks than Spain and Greece combined. German government bias? I think (and I could definitely be wrong) that the ship has sailed on any additional Leo2 sales to Poland... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laser Shark Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Hal said: But none of this has happened with Poland, even with the stated desire to acquire many more tanks than Spain and Greece combined. German government bias? I doubt that. The German government doesn’t put their foot down on arms sales to Hungary and other countries with governments that are unlikeable from their point of view, so I don’t see why they’d do it in this scenario either. No, the decision to acquire tanks from a different source than Germany must be for different reasons IMO, and some of the more probably ones have already been laid out by other posters in this thread. Rico and Żółć 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 On 7/22/2021 at 5:23 PM, Hal said: But none of this has happened with Poland, even with the stated desire to acquire many more tanks than Spain and Greece combined. German government bias? Local production of Leopard 2 was/is being offered to Poland, but they decided to buy the M1A2 SEP v3 instead. KMW even offered license-production of the Leopard 2A6 to Turkey (they chose Hyundai's offer to help them create the Altay instead...), which is a lot less liked than Poland by all German politicians. Poland however insisted on a 60 tonnes weight limit and trying to develop their own tank (Gepard, Wilk, etc.) before the current government decided to ignore all of that and opt for the Abrams instead. Sheffield 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadlo Posted August 31, 2021 Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 Rak self-propelled mortar has arrived. This time it is integrated with Zmodyfikowane Podwozie Gąsienicowe (Modified Tracked Chassis or MPG in short) which is the newest Polish version of Opal / MT-LB tracked vehicle. I think many foreign journalists will mistake MPG with larger and heavier Borsuk. The second vehicle is wheeled ARV Rosomak-WPT which is built on chunkier Rosomak-L which is proposed as MLU for Rosomaks. Beer, Lord_James, Serge and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadlo Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 More photos of MPG Lord_James, Beer, Serge and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadlo Posted September 3, 2021 Report Share Posted September 3, 2021 And the high quality photos of Rak-G Beer, Ramlaen, Scolopax and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volke Posted September 3, 2021 Report Share Posted September 3, 2021 8 hours ago, Zadlo said: And the high quality photos of Rak-G I've always wondered, why HSW never bothered to change the road wheels to something that isn't screaming "im related to MTLB" on their modern more budget products like the LPG, wouldn't it make more sense to standardize them with Borsuk for ease of production and easier logistics during repairs in the future? When BWP-1 is hopefully gone from polish service? (hopefully considering Borsuk still hasn't finished the trials it was supposed to finish in june) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout Posted September 8, 2021 Report Share Posted September 8, 2021 Leopard-2PLM1 Laviduce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Posted September 8, 2021 Report Share Posted September 8, 2021 Is there any new about the Borsuk ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_James Posted September 8, 2021 Report Share Posted September 8, 2021 3 hours ago, Scout said: Leopard-2PLM1 What’s new with the M1 over the base model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.T Posted September 8, 2021 Report Share Posted September 8, 2021 M1 purchase Depends on Euro billions flowing , at the moment it seems there is a rough road ahead for the Polish and Hungarian euro billions. Its much easyer to spend billion on defense when EU funds account for more than 4% of your GDP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 18 hours ago, Lord_James said: What’s new with the M1 over the base model? Not much, there are only minor improvements, many of which were part of the Leopard 2A5 already 25 years earlier: the FCS can now read multiple echoes of the LRF, which is required to engage aerial targets the commander can press a button to automatically turn the turret to face the front (0° rotation) or the back (180° rotation) a fire extinguishing system was installed/connected to the APU the ability for cold starting the engine without restarting the electronics was added cooling systems for the electronics were improved batteries were improved "fitted for but not with" an IFF system Beer, Lord_James and Laviduce 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadlo Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 On 9/8/2021 at 8:36 PM, Serge said: Is there any new about the Borsuk ? General Staff accepted proposal about LRIP. If MoD signs the annex to R&D contract first four Borsuks from LRIP will be introduced to the Army next year. Serge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadlo Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 On 9/3/2021 at 11:32 PM, Volke said: I've always wondered, why HSW never bothered to change the road wheels to something that isn't screaming "im related to MTLB" on their modern more budget products like the LPG, wouldn't it make more sense to standardize them with Borsuk for ease of production and easier logistics during repairs in the future? When BWP-1 is hopefully gone from polish service? (hopefully considering Borsuk still hasn't finished the trials it was supposed to finish in june) Road wheels will be changed. And you won't standardize MPG/LPG with Borsuk because it is a lot lighter than Borsuk. It's like standardising M113 with Bradley or Puma. Also it's not true that Borsuk's trials were supposed to finish in June. That was about ZSSW-30 ones. And they are finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Żółć Posted February 2, 2022 Report Share Posted February 2, 2022 https://twitter.com/PGZ_pl/status/1488814555195133952?s=20&t=nNxdreuDEBCcYCtsOVPaXQ Poland is offering its new IFV "Badger" (Borsuk) to Slovakia. In my opinion, the chances of wining the bid are slim, to say the least. The competition in itself should be interesting, especially as the Borsuk IFV is the lightest of all offered vehicles, and has the capability to swim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Posted February 2, 2022 Report Share Posted February 2, 2022 Not a so bad idea : - if the country is flat enough, rivers numerous and bridges spare. - if they want 6 men sections, - if the cost worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Żółć Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 For anyone interested, here is a great piece, written in polish, about Borsuk (Badger) IFV armour protection - estimated. https://2s14.blogspot.com/2021/12/inzynieria-pancerzy-cz-1-jak-chroniony.html?m=1 The article was written by @Zadlo In the article, it is estimated, that Borsuk (Badger) IFV should be capable of protecting against 3UBR6 (30x165) projectile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Żółć Posted May 16, 2022 Report Share Posted May 16, 2022 Soooo... Polish Armaments Group just signed a deal for the production of a new tank destroyer armed with Brimstone missiles. Thus Poland becomes the fifth customer for the missile, and the second one (after Ukrain) to field it in a ground launch version. It will look similar to the one on the graphic, although it is meant to use a different chassis. Spoiler and here is the new chassis Spoiler Here is the link for the official statement about the establishment of a consortium responsible for the production of said tank destroyer, and here is a link to the statement talking about cooperation with MBDA and the usage of the Brimstone missile. And what is even more interesting is that according to the MBDA press release, Brimstone missiles are going to be produced (under licence?) in Poland. David Moyes and Ramlaen 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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