French flair

[LoooSeR]

 

[Alzoc]

First VBMR Griffon delivered to the army:

 

 

Spoiler

 

[Serge]

About the LRIP of the VBMR Griffon, in French :

http://forcesoperations.com/le-griffon-prend-son-envol/

The most important :

starting from the 93rd, all Griffon will received the new brown colour with the modular camouflage (woodland, desert and winter).

[Ramlaen]

120mm mortars for the Griffon.

 

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/industrie/aeronautique-defense/le-ministere-des-armees-s-offre-54-mortiers-mobiles-2r2m-de-thales-823179.html

[Serge]

[FORMATOSE]

French 140 mm smoothbore gun firing :

 

 

 

[LoooSeR]

Quote

Automatic Target Acquisition by Real-Time Imaging could be integrated into the SCORPION program

http://www.opex360.com/2019/07/05/lacquisition-automatique-de-cibles-par-imagerie-en-temps-reel-pourrait-etre-integree-au-programme-scorpion/

 

   Basically a system that runs AI (probably neural network-based) to recognize/identify targets in real time.

 

Quote

/.../

   This 2ACI project consisted in developing a function of detection, recognition and identification of targets in real time thanks to artificial intelligence [algorithmic chains and database of learning] as well as "massively parallel processing" of the data.

"The 2ACI function allows real-time detection, recognition and identification of terrestrial targets, fixed or mobile, via a real-time image processing performed on video streams from weapons system viewers", explains MBDA, via a press release.

/.../

 

   Also, was linked on otvaga - MBDA press-release

Quote

   MBDA, along with its industry and French Government partners, have been awarded the prestigious Ingénieur général Chanson prize for their work combining artificial intelligence (AI) and massively parallel processing to develop new real-time target Detection, Recognition and Identification (DRI) technology.

/.../

 

[Alzoc]

Program for the parade tomorrow:

 

http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/14-juillet-le-programme-complet-du-defile-militaire-20190712

 

This year the opening animation is supposed to be on innovation.

[LoooSeR]

   Stolen from other place, photos from E_stonia

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

[Ramlaen]

 

[Alzoc]

[Serge]

Business as usual 

 

[FORMATOSE]

 

Two French VBMR Griffon at the Belgian national day military parade, Brussels, 21 July 2019.

[David Moyes]

Some footage of blast testing on Griffon:
 

 

 

 

[Rico]

https://www.janes.com/article/90049/france-to-seek-new-engineer-vehicle

 

I have seen Leclerc ARVs but no AEVs so far. Is the idea of the request to put that dozer on Leclerc chassis?

[Alzoc]

3 hours ago, Rico said:

https://www.janes.com/article/90049/france-to-seek-new-engineer-vehicle

 

I have seen Leclerc ARVs but no AEVs so far. Is the idea of the request to put that dozer on Leclerc chassis?

 

Possible

The current AEV in service are based on the AMX-30B2:

 

 

(there's even a remote controlled version for path opening)

 

Spoiler

 

There's still plenty of AMX-30B2 laying around in various military base, so the chassis is more or less expendable and cheap.

 

An AEV version of the Leclerc does exist but it remained at the prototype stage.

Spoiler

 

It is based on the ARV variant.

 

So given that the Leclerc XLR will probably be the last upgrade and that not all tanks will be converted to that standard, it's possible that they will convert some Leclerc hulls to  AEVs, but on the other hand I think that the army would like to keep those tanks in reserve until the first MGCS start entering service.

It's also worth noting that part of the Scorpion program 18 Leclerc DCL(ARV) will be renovated as well.

 

For now my guess is that both options are on the table (converting Leclerc hull, or a new vehicle entirely).

[Serge]

The Leclerc chassis won’t be used. 

 

The French problem is the stupid faith in the « wheels only platform doctrine » starting in 1987. 

So today, we don’t have tracked platform. 

 

I don’t know the future but the best AEV considered by French engineers is the Terrier MSV. 

[Rico]

I don't think that wheeled AEV with a functions like Mine Breaching will work. The Plow requires much more traction on the ground than a wheel vehicle can generate.

Dozer in heavy terrain (mud, clay/rocks mix, ice/rocks mix etc.) has the same issue.

UAE uses Leclerc MBT+ARV but Wisent 2 AEV due to the mentioned reasons.

[heretic88]

21 hours ago, Rico said:

Dozer in heavy terrain (mud, clay/rocks mix, ice/rocks mix etc.) has the same issue.

 

Dozers have FAR more traction than any military vehicle on any terrain. No tank would be able to push the blade, or pull the ripper of a D10 or D375 (both 70 tons) for example, but I may go even so far  that the same would be true for any tank vs the smaller 50 ton D9/D275. 

In this video it is clearly seen that the ABV is struggling with pushing only a few m3 of soil, this is absolutely nothing for a D9/D275, which have the blade capacity of around 16-17m3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO5ehu1lLjk

 

Military tracked vehicles are massively inferior to dozers in many ways. First their track provides much less traction. Second, the presence of the suspension system makes it significantly harder to maintain grade. And third, their transmission system is optimized for speed, rather than power. 

On the other hand, dozers have a huge disadvantage, their sluggishness which is not a good thing in warfare...

 

[N-L-M]

8 hours ago, heretic88 said:

First their track provides much less traction. Second, the presence of the suspension system makes it significantly harder to maintain grade. And third, their transmission system is optimized for speed, rather than power. 

For those keeping track at home, the D9 for example has a lot of rollers (good MMP), deep grousers for excellent traction in soft soil, and oil coolers for the torque converter. Unlike armored vehicles in which the torque converter is intended to lock up quickly and therefore not get very hot, the torque converter in the D9 is designed to work in slippage at all times. This results in a lot of power being turned into heat in the oil, which then needs to be cooled to prevent the seals from dying. You could run a tank in 1st gear and 100% slip on the torque converter and get pretty good tractive effort, but not for any length of time. The D9 is a very well designed tool.

[Rico]

23 hours ago, heretic88 said:

 

In this video it is clearly seen that the ABV is struggling with pushing only a few m3 of soil, this is absolutely nothing for a D9/D275, which have the blade capacity of around 16-17m3.

 

Well the ABV is not really an optimized engineer vehicle. 

But you are right D9 looks very nice if it comes to earth moving. Sadly I haven't found any data regarding the earth moving capacity of the D9. I think a large blade gives a good hint but volume /weight per hour would be nice to compare it.

 

Terrier CEV has 300t/h

https://www.themanufacturer.com/articles/the-bae-systems-terrier-tank-is-the-swiss-army-knife-of-combat-vehicles/

 

Wisent 2 AEV has 600t/h (~1m3  = 1,5t)

http://www.military-today.com/engineering/wisent_2.htm

 

Nevertheless, the D9 has less speed, protection and no mine plow or excavator. So it has lots of missing engineer functions if you want to use it in combination with other military vehicles.

[Xlucine]

A dozer with a root rake is pretty close to a full-width mine plough

[heretic88]

On 8/1/2019 at 1:21 PM, Rico said:

Wisent 2 AEV has 600t/h (~1m3  = 1,5t)

Honestly, that seems very little. I didnt find any data regarding dozers, but Im 100% sure that their performance is lightyears ahead of these military vehicles. Why do I think so? Simply because you can feed an 1000 ton/hour crusher or screening plant with a 25 ton class wheel loader(5m3 bucket). At my workplace I operate a little 5 ton loader, with 1m3 bucket, and if I can do it without stop, I can move 100 ton/hour of material without problem.

All in all, AEVs are extremely poor "construction vehicles". Their suspension and transmission systems are highly unsuitable for any earthmoving job. One example, the 40 ton, 700hp BAT-2 performs worse than a 10 ton, 110hp T-100 tractor. Same with western equipment. A Wisent 2 is no match for a Cat D9, not even a D8.

But on the other hand, civilian construction vehicles are highly unsuitable for military operations because of their slowness, and of course, lack of protection.

 

 

[Serge]

Because military platform are balanced. They’re not devoted to dozing. They must be able to do others tasks too. 

One reason of the efficiency of lighter tractors can come from the difference of bucket. 

[heretic88]

2 hours ago, Serge said:

Because military platform are balanced. They’re not devoted to dozing. They must be able to do others tasks too. 

Well, there is a russian saying: "Универсальная машина может делать все, но все одинаково плохо"

Which means "Universal machine can do everything, but it does everything equally badly" (russian speaking members will correct me if I translated it badly)

Although it must be said, for military needs, their performance is more than enough. No need to fine grade, no need to dig holes quickly and precisely, no need to do slot dozing, etc.