Ukrainian armor - Oplot-M, T-64M Bulat and other.

[LoooSeR]

   Losses of AFV of Ukrainian army during 2014-2016 anti-terrorist operation (MoD statistics).

Black - destroyed, red - damaged (can be repaired). Left is IFV, then tanks, APCs, others.

 

   Sources of losses:

   Most common is artillery and MRLS fire (~45%), infantry weapons (RPG and small arms) - 17%, enemy tanks and IFVs - 14%, IED/mines - 13%, ATGMs - ~11%.

 

 

[Meplat]

Do you think we'll see a move from Eastern/ComBloc patterns toward Western or (ideally) original designs?

[LoooSeR]

7 hours ago, Meplat said:

Do you think we'll see a move from Eastern/ComBloc patterns toward Western or (ideally) original designs?

   By who? Who will move from Eastern patterns to Western ones? Ukraine is not in the shape to create original design and put it into production.

[Stimpy75]

@Looser

İ have this pic from a T-64 book

could you plz tell me what is written esscpecially the vehicle at the bottom with bustle mounted AL

[SilentLurker]

4 hours ago, Stimpy75 said:

@Looser

İ have this pic from a T-64 book

could you plz tell me what is written esscpecially the vehicle at the bottom with bustle mounted AL

Spoiler

 

T-64BV modeled in 2015 by A. Kostur. T-64BM Bulat modeled in 2015 by A. Kostur.
Variant of deep modernization of T-64 modeled in 2015 by A. Kostur.

Also, if you are really interested - you can check this untranslated book about T-64 with big numbers of drawing and photos.

[Stimpy75]

Thx a lot for your answer

When I get home I will download it

If I would have time I would try to learn russian.......but with 2 little girls! No way!

 

[LoooSeR]

   Last vehicle on the picture looks like someone tried to put together Oplot-BM/Yatagan and T-64BV. Kind of realistic.

[Laviduce]

Not sure if you all have seen this before. This is a chart that shows of the technical details of the BM Oplot tank and VT4 tank.  Richard Gao over at the SinoDefense Forum was so kind enough to translate the original chart:

 

 

I am not sure if about the protection values.  According to the chart, the turret front and hull front of the Oplot are rated at:

 

KE(3BM42/OFL120F1)>= 1100 mm**
CE(<Kornet-E>) >= 1300 mm**  

 

As far as I know, the 3BM42 has the ability to penetrate roughly 500 mm of RHA (260 BHN?) at 2000 m. The OFL120F1 penetrates around 560-600 of RHA (260 BHN?) at 2000 m. Could anyone  please explain this information?

[Beer]

Can you tell me how to understand even the information alone (if we let the exact ammo type aside). How can the armour protection be rated to 1100 mm for an ammo with 500 mm penetration? I understand that these values are more or less relative due to the nature of the armor being no RHA at all but still what does it mean? That it needs 2+ hits into the exactly same place to penetrate or what is the meaning of such value? I understand simple protected/non-protected but not to this. 

[Militarysta]

1 hour ago, Laviduce said:

 Could anyone  please explain this information?

 

Yes, it's marketing fairytails. Knive ERA is well known and abilities to stop APFSDS are known too. Nope it does not work in sucht way on most covered by ERA area.

And without a lot of RHA before and after Knive efectivens is less then old polish ERAWA-2 ERA. Knive/Nozh ERA abilitiest to protect are highly depend on place where SC/penetrator hit casette.

And no way that Knive overcome Kornet. This is possible only for low-hight part of frontall hull module, but not in it's upper part par or on turret.

 

[alanch90]

22 minutes ago, Militarysta said:

 

Yes, it's marketing fairytails. Knive ERA is well known and abilities to stop APFSDS are known too. Nope it does not work in sucht way on most covered by ERA area.

And without a lot of RHA before and after Knive efectivens is less then old polish ERAWA-2 ERA. Knive/Nozh ERA abilitiest to protect are highly depend on place where SC/penetrator hit casette.

And no way that Knive overcome Kornet. This is possible only for low-hight part of frontall hull module, but not in it's upper part par or on turret.

 

Its Duplet ERA. That explains the resistance against Tandem. 

[LoooSeR]

   6 more modernized T-72s for UAF

 

[heretic88]

16 hours ago, Laviduce said:

Not sure if you all have seen this before. This is a chart that shows of the technical details of the BM Oplot tank and VT4 tank.  Richard Gao over at the SinoDefense Forum was so kind enough to translate the original chart:

So basically, the VT4 is a way more advanced tank. That was to be expected. One thing is surprising though... Main gun seems like it is based on old 2A46, not the much better 2A46M... asymmetric recoil mechanism is not good for accuracy. Also no quick change barrel... This is very strange, since 2A46M is also quite old. 

[Militarysta]

16 hours ago, alanch90 said:

Its Duplet ERA. That explains the resistance against Tandem. 

No, it's not. On Bulat its Knive not Duplet. And both of them have efficency depend on place (hight) of hit in casette and present (or not) hard 20mm+ HHS outern plate in ERA casette.

[alanch90]

4 hours ago, Militarysta said:

No, it's not. On Bulat its Knive not Duplet. And both of them have efficency depend on place (hight) of hit in casette and present (or not) hard 20mm+ HHS outern plate in ERA casette.

Yes but the document is about BM Oplot, not Bulat. And Duplet is explicitly mentioned.

[TokyoMorose]

19 hours ago, heretic88 said:

So basically, the VT4 is a way more advanced tank. That was to be expected. One thing is surprising though... Main gun seems like it is based on old 2A46, not the much better 2A46M... asymmetric recoil mechanism is not good for accuracy. Also no quick change barrel... This is very strange, since 2A46M is also quite old. 

 

What is *doubly* weird is that the Chinese gun internals are hard-chromed. The 2A46 family did not introduce that until the 2A46M - so the Chinese made the effort to modify production tooling and procedures to allow a good chroming, but didn't also copy the rather simple front-change screw mechanism that is very well known? Really is a baffling combination of gun "features".

[Militarysta]

14 hours ago, alanch90 said:

Yes but the document is about BM Oplot, not Bulat. And Duplet is explicitly mentioned.

 

Oh, sorry, my mistake. Indeed it's Oplot-M so Duplet ERA. It change a lot. Oplot-M and T is well protected indeed - propably in  top.

[TWMSR]

3 hours ago, TokyoMorose said:

 

What is *doubly* weird is that the Chinese gun internals are hard-chromed. The 2A46 family did not introduce that until the 2A46M - so the Chinese made the effort to modify production tooling and procedures to allow a good chroming, but didn't also copy the rather simple front-change screw mechanism that is very well known? Really is a baffling combination of gun "features".

 

 

Because it is copy of 2A46 gun, not 2A46M. Design is old, with single recoil buffer, short cradle, no fast barrel change feature. But materials, some details, finishing touches could be sinicized. One example is barrel, made with more modern technology than orginal, another one are gun trunnions, that fit in vintage, T-54-style frame mounting, not T-62+ sockets integral to turret front casting. It is a bit of steampunk in it, mix of old and new developments.

[heretic88]

10 hours ago, TokyoMorose said:

 

What is *doubly* weird is that the Chinese gun internals are hard-chromed. The 2A46 family did not introduce that until the 2A46M - so the Chinese made the effort to modify production tooling and procedures to allow a good chroming, but didn't also copy the rather simple front-change screw mechanism that is very well known? Really is a baffling combination of gun "features".

Ukrainian KBA-3 is also strange... While it is a copy of 2A46M, the barrel isnt chromed! Weird... And even though on the chinese gun the asymmetric recoil mechanism seems to be a big disadvantage, it still has better dispersion... I think there are lot more improvements inside.

[Beer]

Anyway where did the table come from? Is that from Thailand? 

 

Also any idea why only several features of VT-4 are deleted from the table and nothing from Oplot-M? The selection of what was deleted is also pretty weird for me (such as engine dimensions - why would that be secret?)

[alanch90]

57 minutes ago, Beer said:

Anyway where did the table come from? Is that from Thailand? 

 

Also any idea why only several features of VT-4 are deleted from the table and nothing from Oplot-M? The selection of what was deleted is also pretty weird for me (such as engine dimensions - why would that be secret?)

Perhaps because VT-4 ended up being selected?

[LoooSeR]

   Pakistani Kharkovite-80UD

[LoooSeR]

   Hey look, another Azovets!

http://arey.net.ua/Don

Quote

Don is designed to be a heavy armored personnel carrier (APC). But it is also much more. Don comes equipped with a new hybrid power plant, a newly-designed combat module — the Sword of Arey, a digital combat management system—Checkmate, and a new and highly reliable system of armor protection.

/.../

 

 

[alanch90]

Is that thing vaporware like the "T-rex" or is to be a real vehicle?

[Zadlo]

Only vaporwave because people from Arey are smart people and they want to insert ceramic fillers to armor.

Spoiler

While MoD wants to see Nozh on these vehicles.