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StuG III Thread (and also other German vehicles I guess)


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After some research & googling, I’ve drawn a blank on some specifics of the Leopard 1.


Some questions: what is the turret ring diameter? What is the distance from the hull front to the centre of the turret ring? What is the height of the hull roof for the fighting compartment & the engine deck?


Thanks for any help you’re able to provide. 

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According to the Dutch MoD, a Boxer based solution would be considerably more expensive, but they do not mention any numbers.


"The SHORAD capability will be delivered on the Armored Combat Support Vehicle (ACSV) G5. The SHORAD solution on the ACSV G5 is fully compliant and MOTS is available (the ACSV G5 is in production and will be delivered to Norway in Q3 of this year). The development risks for the integration with the MMR and the command and control IT of Defense are low, resulting in MOTS. The alternative, the SHORAD solution on the Boxer armored vehicle, is considerably more expensive, has a high development risk and has a longer delivery time."



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Norwegian media are now reporting that the serial production of the ACSV G5 will commence around the turn of the year at the earliest. Production bottlenecks caused by the Ukraine war, on top of after effects from the pandemics and the 2021 floods, are cited as reasons for the delays.


That said, this is kind of old news at this point (at least for anyone who has been paying close attention to this project), so I can’t help but wonder if it might not be related to this recent visit to FFG by Stoltenberg and Pistorius...

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Just some minor wheeled update:

  • Negotiations on the purchase of the Schwerer Waffenträger Infanterie based (based on Boxer CRV) with Australia have started. An Australian delegation has visited Germany. The goal is to sign a government-to-government deal in 2023 and receive first vehicles by 2025. Overall 121 vehicles are to be purchased. A recent article written by authorized representative for the program in the German MoD detailed that the selection of the manned turret was a result of the vehicle commander somehow needing "direct visual contact and direct communication" to nearby infantry (apparently that is not possible when the commander has a hatch in the hull :rolleyes:). 
  • As the Boxer CRV is a reconnaissance variant based on an IFV variant, it is designed with capacity for infantry (dismounting scouts), but the German Jäger will not have dismounts on the Schwerer Waffenträger Infanterie... so they are trying to come up with some sort of use for the rear compartment such as carrying UAVs (which can be and are already carried in lighter vehicles at greater distance from the front line) or "UGVs armed for example with an autocannon" (currently market available UGVs with autocannon - unless talking about an anemic solution with the M230LF - are too heavy and too large to be carried inside the Boxer and have enough endurance - e.g. Milrem Type X UGV: 600 km - to be drive on their own).


  • Also German media reported (based on "industry sources") that an alternative offer - likely from KMW - with full production in Germany supposedly was only half as expensive.
  • The Caracal (a variant of the Enok 4.8 AB from ACS Armoured Car Systems offered in cooperation with Rheinmetall and Mercedes-Benz) has been selected as the new lightly armored vehicle airborne for the airborne units of the Dutch and German armies. At the moment 1,504 vehicles (1,000 for Germany and 504 for the Netherlands) have been ordered, but there is an option for a further 1,500 (1,000 for Germany and 500 for the Netherlands). Deliveries are to start 2025 at a rate of 300 vehicles (with 200 going to Germany and 100 to the Netherlands each year). The Netherlands have also purchased 138 armor kits for the Caracal; there are currently no infos on how many Germany has purchased/will purchase. The Caracal beat the GRF from KMW & Defenture. Originally GDELS also competed with the Merlin, but withdrew due to it being to heavy for the weight limit.


  • As per the German concept for the Medium Forces (Mittlere Kräfte), at least some Marder IFVs are to be replaced with a Boxer IFV model. The latest plans suggest that a total of 148 Boxer IFVs should be procured. Supposedly the Army favors an unmanned solution, so there won't be any turret commonality with the Schwerer Waffenträger Infanterie.
  • Germany also remains comitted to the procurement of a wheeled SPG; the stated requirement is for 160 vehicles. Currently the maturity of the Boxer-based RCH 155 is being tested with (based on rumor mill) rather positive feedback, but also some minor improvement ideas that are being implemented by KMW. The "wheeled self-propelled howitzer" from a cooperation of Rheinmetall (providing the HX3 truck chassis, weapon system and local modifications) and Elbit Systems (providing the turret and autoloader of its SIGMA system) is not being tested yet due to the immaturity of the design (still in development, no real prototype has fired its gun) and for being incompatible with a partner's (UK) requirement.
  • further Boxer variants are also planned including ARV, AVLB, long-range anti-tank vehicle, air-defence missile carrier and SPAAG with the Skyranger 30 turret are also planned, but not much concrete details regarding numbers and equipment. KMW has proposed the Boxer UAV variants (carrying & controlling more than a dozen small/micro drones) and Boxer Digitalization (for controlling UGVs) for the German medium forces
  • The program for the Fuchs successor is also on-going. Currently the German Army plans to purchase 629 new vehicles. Germany has joined the Patria CAVS program, but this is not a final decision as it is a prerequisite for testing the Patria 6x6 vehicle. Patria has stated in an interview with German media that it is looking for local partners that would take care of the production for the Bundeswehr's program, if the CAVS is selected. Rheinmetall is offering its Fuchs Evolution, which is not really a Fuchs 2, but also more than the previously proposed Fuchs 1A9.
  • Meanwhile Rheinmetall and Ukraine have agreed on the supply (and later local production) of Fuchs vehicles including a new upgraded IFV variant. There are/were two options being discussed: using the Skyranger 30 turret (which is an air-defence turret and thus not optimal for a modern IFV) or leftover Marder 1A3 turrets (which are quite outdated). Production of Fuchs vehicles in high quantities in Ukraine might be advantageous for the companies' chances against the CAVS.


  • Last but not least, Rheinmetall and Lockheed Martin have detailed their offer (based on HIMARS) in the German wheeled artillery program. The new system is called GMARS (German Medium/Multiple Artillery Rocket System) based on a HX3 truck and fitted with a full-sized launcher from the latest/improved M270A2 variant; so it is rather comparable K239 Chunmoo and HOMAR-K (Polish Chunmoo on Jelz truck) but based on official ToT/cooperation and not a bootleg copy. The two companies want Diehl to join their offer, competing against a team formed by KMW, MBDA, EGS and Elbit Systems offering the Euro-PULS system. Euro-PULS is likely cheaper and due to the removable pods, missile size is not limited to the MRLS-launche's internal dimensions, but it carries less ready-to-fire missiles (at least when using GMRLS-sized rockets). Germany favors having a Leopard 2-like "user-club" for its new vehicles (to share development costs, place common orders and help each other with training/logistics), which IMO favors Euro-PULS, as the normal PULS artillery system has been purchased by traditional partners of Germany (the Netherlands and Denmark). GMARS OTOH is based on some HIMARS components and HIMARS has seen a wider adoption in Europe (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Romania and Poland all have signed contracts for HIMARS).



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The American company Miller Industries Towing Equipment Inc. (MITE) has received a contract to deliver seven light armoured recovery vehicles to the Norwegian Army, by developing and integrating a recovery module onto the newly developed ACSV G5. The contract also includes an option for two more light ARVs.





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<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/6lDcV0M"  ><a href="//imgur.com/a/6lDcV0M">Leopard 1BE</a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Leopard 1BE measurements at Gunfire museum (July 22).
Mantlet was not really doable due to time constraints.

Leopard 1A5BE MEXAS light skirts were ~20mm, had a "plywood" texture, probably some type of aramid composite as it was quite heavy.
LFP add-on thickness: 140mm
UFP add-on thickness: 105mm
Turret left side add-on was 260mm LOS, not including stand-off, only the vertical angle.
The add-on on the hull was made of a single thin steel plate, about 6mm, with some kind of foam backer, probably PU foam, roughly 20-30mm thick and "brittle" to the touch.

Variance of about 2mm due to paint etc.
If anyone knows of a way to improve the chances to measure convex and rough surfaces with a TM-8818 and log them, feel free to share.

@Wiedzmin I might go back for mantlet if needed...

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