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StuG III Thread (and also other German vehicles I guess)

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Lots of good stuff there, @SH_MM, which has helped join some dots for me. I appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed post. 

Regarding the Australian Boxer purchase, the customer has differentiated between “Block 1” and “Block 2” deliveries. The first 25 vehicles to be delivered (two delivered to date) are the Block 1 standard, with an interim configuration Lance turret. The first turreted Block 1 vehicle is due to be delivered around September this year. The exact configuration of the Lance turret for the Block 2 is yet to be determined, & will likely be informed by the IFV phase of the project (L400-3). 

Tree strike is a thing in Australia. Generally the first thing added or beefed up on a vehicle in Australian service are brush guards or deflectors. The Block 1 Boxers are a good demonstration of this - look at the side stowage racks. Shaped & angled brush deflectors to protect the side stowage & the side situational awareness cameras from being scrubbed (ha!) off the side of the truck. 

The launcher on the Risk Mitigation Activity (RMA - trial) overhung the side of the vehicle (Boxer). On Puma, the launcher was inside the outer mould line of the vehicle. On Boxer, the overhang means that, with the turret at 12 o’clock, the launcher could be the first thing that hits a tree as the vehicle threads through wooded terrain. Anything that lowers the exposure of the launcher is worth serious configuration, especially with the launcher mounted on the opposite side of the vehicle To the driver. Compare that to Bradley. Lower profile launcher on the same side as the driver, so that it’s easier to avoid tree strike. 

Regarding damping and Spike-LR2, one issue identified has been the lifecycle of the missile. Currently, as soon as the missile is loaded into the launcher, it has to either be fired, or if at the conclusion of the activity it has not, it has to be repackaged and returned to the factory for refurbishment. The useable life of the missile in the launcher is sensitive information, but it is finite before being declared unserviceable. The longer a missile is carried in a launcher, the lower its pH. In live-fire exercises, this isn’t an issue. Unpack, load, aim, fire. But operational use is different. 

Improving damping takes many forms. Taking weight out of the launcher is one way. Either way, improving damping is intended to improve the service life of the missile once loaded into the launcher and retain a high pH (& probability of correct function). It’s my understanding that one of the design goals of the new launcher is to extend the useful life of Spike LR2. 

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On 7/3/2020 at 2:09 AM, SH_MM said:

Supacat RAMP

SupaSHOCK not SupaCAT :)  Constant problem getting these name typos.  Both involved with L400.  Key difference is that SupaSHOCk is 49% owned by Rheinmetall.


Per 2085662 - yep, tree strike is a thing.  Moving through Australian scrub involves constant contact with trees and branches of various sizes.  One of the reasons why the SAAB Barracuda stuff is a waste of money here.  It just gets ripped off and randomly scattered all over the bush.


Last I heard (Feb 2020), LANCE 2.0 does not have mission pods - its configured more like a conventional crewed turret.  The SPIKE launcher is inside the outer armoured shell of the complete turret.

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On 6/3/2020 at 8:29 PM, SH_MM said:

Unless I am mistaken

I think you may be.  I think that is a LANCE 1.0/ BLOCK 1 BOXER config.  That means no APS.

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On 7/11/2020 at 11:32 AM, Wiedzmin said:

what was the reason to put 30mm perforated plates on front of Raketenjagdpanzer ?


Reaching a protection level similar to the Leopard 1A1A1 ?

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On 7/12/2020 at 10:25 PM, Sovngard said:

Reaching a protection level similar to the Leopard 1A1A1 ?


Yes, but why? I find this whole perforated plates experiment with Leopard and other stuff totally useless.


Rjpz was already immune vs 23-30mm, and already hopeless against anything bigger. With add on armor, the only weapon against this might have worked, is the D-56T of the PT-76.

For Leopard-1, the extra armor reduced vulnerability against 100mm APHE (according to german documents), but honestly, it was waaaaay too late. In 1974, even the 3BM8 APDS was being replaced by 3BM20 APFSDS. 1-2 years later production of the even more powerful 3BM25 began. 

Yes, some less well equipped WP armies retained BR-412B (like Hungary), but even these armies had access to 3BM8. 

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On 7/12/2020 at 11:25 PM, Sovngard said:


Reaching a protection level similar to the Leopard 1A1A1 ?

30+30mm ? at lower angle ? doubt 


1 hour ago, Zach9889 said:

Perhaps it was an effort in increasing protection against 152mm/155mm fragments at closer impact ranges?

30mm of base front is more than enough, side armour addons don't know how thick

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15 hours ago, Wiedzmin said:

30+30mm ? at lower angle ? doubt 


30mm of base front is more than enough, side armour addons don't know how thick


AFAIK, the front armor is 50 mm thick.

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