Israeli AFVs

[alanch90]

3 hours ago, N-L-M said:

Renk 304 which goes with the 1200 HP AVDS 1790

Do you have a source stating explicitly that Renk 304 is the transmission used on Merk Mk.2-3? I´m convinced from photo evidence that´s indeed the case but i´ve been unable to find a source proving it unequivocally. 

[Wiedzmin]

with all of that "tons of "armour"" frontal part doesn't look thick, and mantlet protection module is a .... 150-160mm max at 73-72 deg which gives 550mm LOS max with mantlet + trunnion block behind it 

[Wiedzmin]

 

also possible that upper part of mantlet is simple steel( two) plates) with addons on it, but due to museum have prototype vehicle, maybe something different used on serial vehicle...

 

 

and mantlet is a...thin...

 

 

[Wiedzmin]

 

made better pic, 85-110mm estimate is a bit overestimation, but...

 

 

lower plate also could be welded "box" and not simple RHA plate

[Wiedzmin]

 

[Sirpad]

i'd like at add some relevant photos, how is it done?

[alanch90]

7 hours ago, Sirpad said:

i'd like at add some relevant photos, how is it done?

I recommend doing it from imgur

[Newtonk]

Taken from an Israeli site, the interior of an Ofek, the love child of a Merkava and I don’t know what... a M577 Mugaf?

 

 

 

[Serge]

Mk-2 chassis. 

[N-L-M]

2 hours ago, Serge said:

Mk-2 chassis. 

That is quite clearly a merk 3 chassis. Note the individual suspension units all pointing the same way.

[Serge]

Chassis are rebuilt with Mk3 suspension. 
It’s a Mk-2. Impossible to modify a Mk-3 this way.

There are three kinds of the Karnaf Ofek command post. Two using Mk-2 and one the Mk-3 chassis. 

[N-L-M]

What about the Merk 3 chassis makes you consider it impossible to convert in such a manner? Doubly so, that you consider it more likely that they went to all the trouble to convert a merk 2 chassis to merk 3 suspension?

This is especially odd given that we've already seen one based on a Merk 3 hull:

[Serge]

Because the rear hull of the Mk-3 based Ofek is not extended. The clamshell rear door is kept. 
This Mk-2´s got a ramp.

[Serge]

And this one is the second design using Mk-2 chassis. 

Very close to the Mk-3 one. 

[N-L-M]

18 minutes ago, Serge said:

Because the rear hull of the Mk-3 based Ofek is not extended. The clamshell rear door is kept. 
This Mk-2´s got a ramp.

Ok, so 2 questions.

1. What is the source for the claim that the mk3 based Ofek retains the clamshell doors and was not converted to a ramp?

2. Seeing as we know that one mk2 Ofek has the clamshell and one has a ramp, how is it more sensible to assume that the entire suspension was replaced off the hull rather than, say, another mk3 Ofek existing, this one with a ramp too?

 

The pics in the post we are discussing have a Merk 3 sponson and Merk 3 suspension. Seeing as the Ofek doesn't appear to be in series production yet, and is by all accounts supposed to be a quick and cheap repurposed hull, even if we assume point 1 as given, the odds are good that its another prototype, not a case of "lets take a Merk 2 hull and start making deep complex changes in it".

This appears to be an assumption on your part that I have a hard time accepting.

[Serge]

1 - it’s easier to move both battery and CBRN compartment than rearrange the Mk-3 fuel tanks.
2 - suspension modifications were already made with Centurion based chassis. 

First third of Mk-2 and 3 sponsons are similar and we can’t see the rear part.
I don’t know if it’s in series production after 5 years, but, strangely, it appears in plenty of ceremonies.

I’m not sure they need a large number of them (they have the same satellite communication on the move capability with the Namer now) but it’s easier to maintain. 

[N-L-M]

5 minutes ago, Serge said:

1 - it’s easier to move both battery and CBRN compartment than rearrange the Mk-3 fuel tanks.
2 - suspension modifications were already made with Centurion based chassis. 

First third of Mk-2 and 3 sponsons are similar and we can’t see the rear part

1. Fuel tanks are very easy to move, what with fuel being liquid. Also we have some pics of blown up merk 3s which suggest the rear fuel tanks are just bolted on, which would make them fairly easy to remove: 

2. The most the Israelis ever did to Centurion hulls was fit them for Merk 2 bogies, which may have been designed with a similar interface in the first place; as we have previously discussed, the hull body for the single swing arm suspension is substantially different, and would require major hull cutting, welding, and machining operations, hardly a minor deal.

 

3. There are a few differences in the front sponson between the 2 and 3. One is the exact location of the red handle, which is slightly aft and high in the merk 3 vs the 2; another is the slight dimples in the side, presumably where the armor pack is, which isn't a thing in the 2; and a third is the single headlamp in the 3, where the 2 has a double (white/IR) headlight.

All of which point to this being a merk 3 sponson.

 

So yeah I don't buy the "converted merk 2 to merk 3 suspension" claim, given the current evidence.

 

Should new photos come up we should revisit this topic.

[LoooSeR]

   Adding a bit of chill to break the ice

   General Winter vandalised some Merks.

[Sirpad]

On 2/22/2021 at 6:42 AM, Newtonk said:

Taken from an Israeli site, the interior of an Ofek, the love child of a Merkava and I don’t know what... a M577 Mugaf?

That "Israeli site" you reffer to is actually the Forum i manage and admin - and the photos were posted by me. At least have the courtesy of giving proper credit!

[Serge]

Great.

So, both Ofek, are they Mk-2 or Mk-3 based ?

[Newtonk]

9 hours ago, Sirpad said:

That "Israeli site" you reffer to is actually the Forum i manage and admin - and the photos were posted by me. At least have the courtesy of giving proper credit!

Sirpad, my apologies, and no offence intended as I did not realise that. 

[Serge]

Interesting :

https://m.ynet.co.il/articles/58943360

[Sirpad]

On 2/23/2021 at 10:59 AM, Serge said:

Great.

So, both Ofek, are they Mk-2 or Mk-3 based ?

The prototype were based on Mk-2, the production vehicles are based on Mk-3.

[Serge]

Smart

I better understand. 
thank you. 

[Marsh]

Apologies if this has already been posted on site.

 

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